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[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]Because there have been pain studies of preterm infants before 25 weeks [b]who do seem to indicate[/b] pain responses. [b]But again, we can't know[/b] and while I think it is wrong to dismiss the possibility because it makes you [general] look rigid and unwilling to accept new info, it is not a strong argument because of how the procedure is performed AND the use of analgesics to dull pain.
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Christ save us from these people. Studies done on [i]infants[/i]. Infants are different than fetuses. If you doubt this, [b]if you truly think that birth changes no systems[/b], maybe consider that a fetus isn’t breathing with its lungs in utero.

And again: 92% of abortions occur at less than 13 weeks. The ones that occur later occurred because forced birthers just couldn’t stop themselves from inventing every conceivable (no pun intended) barrier possible. 8 week fetuses, which are really 6 weeks old, do not have pain receptors. [/quote]

Did you read anything I wrote in the above and collapsed posts or just jump to being ornery? In another post, I am alos quite clear that all the science in the world won't change someone's mind if they have any contradictory study to fall back on, so it is more efficient and persuasive to throw analgesics their way. That way, you can see if you are in fact dealing with a good faith argument (and there are some people who truly believe fetuses are in pain but lean towards pro-choice...I know I'd like to get through to those people)>[/quote]
I did read the posts, thanks. It’s dear that you still have optimism for those people, but I have long since given up hope. They don’t understand why women have late abortions, they don’t seem to understand that all abortion is functionally illegal in multiple states at all gestational ages and for any reason. There just doesn’t seem to be a lot of critical thinking among the fence sitters. They seem confused and shocked about this decision and its implications and they remain ignorant on a whole host of other issues because they like it that way. [/quote]

I agree in my heart, but nothing is going to ever change unless we keep dialogue open. Not acceptance, not agreement, but dialogue. We can't all keep retreating into our corners. We can be right and win the argument, but lose the war because we are not effective. Which is pretty much where we are now.

And we don't need to change people's minds about abortion. The majority is on that side. We need to keep dialogues open because voting matters more than ever and we need people to vote with us, not against us. [/quote]
This is fair.

For the record, when my [redacting the relationship] had to TFMR, it was a massive surgery under general. Her fetus was feeling no pain whatsoever. The other later term abortions I have read about generally involve an ultrasound-guided shot (of potassium) to the heart and I believe they offered some sort of pain relief for the piece of mind of the parents. Still other later abortions are literally just birth with comfort care.

Doctors who provide abortions are not actually monsters. Women who terminate late would probably give ten years off their lives to not have to have an abortion. And now, with today’s decision, my [redacted] would bleed to death. [/quote]

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