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[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]I guess so.  That is a very broad generalization - controlling women.  [b]All women are not being forced to give birth when they don't want to, [/b]so no, I would not phrase my statement as "controlling women."  That is just inaccurate - hence my confusion and asking for clarification.  Also, I don't see that as the predominant motivation for pro-lifers, so I was confused by such a broad generalization.  BTW, I actually see both sides to this debate and am not so strongly one side or the other as most people seem to be.

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Wow. So in your view, in order for a law to "control" people, it must actually control every single person in that category?  That's a ... novel form of analysis.  You claim to see both sides, yet you're conveniently avoiding the fact that we KNOW how to reduce unwanted pregnancy (access to birth control and health care) WITHOUT forcing women to have babies they don't want.  [/quote]

I agree. 100% for access to birth control and health care.  No, I don't see the root purpose of enacting anti-abortion laws as trying to control women.  Guess we can agree to disagree on that.  [/quote]\

But you literally just said that you thought an appropriate goal of banning abortion is to control women's behavior by making the consequences of their behavior more drastic.  Or did you not say that?  What did you mean by discussing how banning abortion would lead to increased use of birth control?  The whole point is one can reach that goal (increasing birth control) WITHOUT coercing women by punishing the opposite behavior (ie controlling).  You need to stand up and explain why you think the more coercive and controlling route to increasing use of birth control (banning abortion) is acceptable, when we KNOW that there is a non-coercive route (making long term birth control freely available).  
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No, and prior post just above is not me.  I just find the issue has so many facets that it is hard to come up with laws either way that encompass the whole of it.  Women in most states cannot prostitute themselves.  I don't see a lot of the same arguments for prostitution and how that is not letting a woman do what she wants with her body.  Maybe there are arguments along that line, I just don't really see it.  If a woman is 35 weeks pregnant and a crazy person stabs her in the uterus and kills the fetus, is that murder? I think,  yes, in most cases that is the case.  [b]However, if a woman at 35 weeks walks into a clinic and wants an abortion that is different because she is the one initiating things? [/b] IDK.  It seems like having free rampant abortion at will is not the answer, but I don't agree with banning abortion.  Like I said, there are just so many facets to this and it doesn't seem like the straight line political issue, one side vs the other, that is portrayed and argued about.

On the other hand, I do see the language as trying to control women as a little inflammatory and not conducive to construction conversation, but again, I guess that is just me.  [/quote]

This is such a red herring. Late term abortions are not the norm. They are a tiny, tiny percentage of abortions overall. And what’s particularly offensive about using this red herring - as has been explained MANY times on this thread and others -  is that women seeking abortions late term are usually doing so under tragic circumstances - their child has a condition that is incompatible with life, for example. Or the Mother’s life is in jeopardy.

No one is killing live babies. No one is ripping out healthy babies that would otherwise live  and murdering them. It’s just a grotesque red herring and I’m so sick of people using it because they are either poorly informed or want to inflame fear and ignorance. [/quote]

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