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[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]
I have no interest in learning the quranic arabic or in entertaining more scholarly acrobatics from people whose main aim is to make the unattractive look  attractive. This is not a personal attack against you. You've delivered the party line to the best of your ability. But if that pleases you better , you can tell yourself that I just DONT WANT TO LEARN THE TRUTH goddammit.[/quote]

Honestly, I can't imagine telling anyone who wanted to learn more about my faith to go talk to a priest.  I'd direct them to an internet site or books--might even lend them some.  And I'd probably slip in some referrals to critiques of my faith as well for good measure because people should be shown both the pros and the cons for a good understanding.  I really, really do not understand why talking to some Islamic scholar is necessary for an understanding of the faith.  I suspect these referrals are made because they think the scholar will be more successful in converting someone than mere reading up on the subject.[/quote]

I absolutely agree with PP that people need to come to a faith based on wide-ranging exploration of sources, both pro and con. Conversion should never be about just racking up ever higher numbers in your faith (the team!) by directing potential converts to the guy who can deliver the most polished sales pitch.

For that reason, I've been uncomfortable every time Muslim PP suggests we go to a mosque for the official explanation. This is the first time I've said it. I'm not interested in talking to a guy who gets paid to sell his religion. I'm actually already familiar with parts of the Muslim sales pitch and we've seen bits of it here.

For the same reason, I love my own minister and I think he's extremely articulate (and progressive, and not a literalist, and never pushy). But I would never suggest somebody make an appt at my church to talk to him. Conversion should be an informed choice, and anything that even gives the appearance of a sales pitch just seems so wrong. Like PP, I'd probably offer some books with a range of views.[/quote]

Whoa. Paranoid much? I am Muslim but when I was curious about Christianity, I did BOTH, read on my own but also met with knowledgeable priests to ask questions. And this is why I suggested that pp seek more knowledge from those who are more knowledgeable than her.

I never once thought it might get her to convert. PP is beyond rehabilitation. :) Islam likely may not want her.  Islam is not begging for converts, if you didn't know.

As a Muslim, if I can meet with priests, she can meet with a scholar or imam. She has over a hundred posts on Islam, asking questions, yet refuses to ask those who she knows can answer her questions better than Muslims on DCUM. I have provided a mosque location, an imams name, the class name. This means Jeff was right. Muslima was right. And I was right. PP came here to DCUM with an agenda. She isn't interested in answers to her questions. They were a guise. She feigned interest in Islam to present it on DCUM as a barbaric, vile, oppressive religion. 50 pages of hate filled speech. Shameful. Personally, I thought Jeff should delete the threads but now I think anyone who reads it may find some information helpful. I will also refer this thread and others to CAIR to possibly use in media since they now serve as examples of blogs being used as hate propoganda.

What is sad that every attempt to clarify is met with accusations of proselytizing. We Muslims who love our faith are expected to either remain silent in the face of such terribly ugly accusations, otherwise we are accused of either being brainwashed or proselytizing.

Given the number of pp's posts and her bank of knowledge (albeit with gaps or holes because she refuses to learn Quranic Arabic), it is clear she works for an anti-Islam group. There are a few such groups, some of them are actually international. No one else studies a religion this much solely out of hate.

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I happen to agree with that other poster. You are the one who started all these conversations, not the PP you're attacking. You are the one who started multiple threads and you've spouted multiple platitudes. Your multiple threads and multiple platitudes actually do look like proselytizing. No surprise, then, that you get accused of proselytizing.

The PP you're attacking has been in a reactive mode to your many threads, posts and superficial assertions. I, for one, am grateful to her for having the energy and knowledge to counter platitudes such as your claim that Islam gives equality to women (because, you finally clarified after about 10 pages, you define equality to include inequality) or that Islam is growing faster by conversion than immigration (you've insulted lots of people for asking for those stats) or that Islamic divorce rules are actually kind to women. I'm glad that stuff like that doesn't go unchallenged, but I personally don't have the time or knowledge to challenge it. So I'm glad she's around to point out, for example, that although you said women do well under Islam's divorce rules, the truth is that it's very easy for a man to get a divorce and the alimony that you boasted about is something he actually only has to pay for three months. Oops, you forgot to mention that. I'm glad that PP mentioned it for you.

I disagree that she's motivated by hate or that she works for some hate group - that's just paranoia on your part. That PP has said multiple times that she knows about Islam because she married a muslim or maybe he's a former muslim. Seems like a credible explanation to me.

Why on earth would you forward these threads to CAIR? All these threads really show is that you threw a bunch of platitudes out there and got called out almost every time. You threatened PP with Jeff and now you're threatening her with CAIR. Yay for you.
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These are posters PAID by Saudi Arabia which has been spreading this violent cult around the world.  No use arguing.  These people believe an Angel flew down from the heavens into a desert and blessed a wandering man with the "truth", coded in conflicting and vague messages, that you most follow, as interpreted by other random humans, or these random humans will kill you.

More news from the Islam from Saudi Arabia.

A court in Saudi Arabia has sentenced the Shia cleric Sheikh Nimr Baqir al-Nimr to death, his family says.  Sheikh Nimr Baqir al-Nimr's brother said he was found guilty of seeking "foreign meddling" in the kingdom, "disobeying" its rulers and taking up arms against the security forces.

When Sheikh Nimr, who holds the rank of ayatollah, went on trial in March 2013 prosecutors called for his execution by "crucifixion", a punishment which in Saudi Arabia involves beheading followed by public display of the decapitated body.

Not safe to be a Shia in Saudi Arabia.

Reza F. Safa, author of Inside Islam: Exposing and Reaching the World of Islam, estimates that since 1973, the Saudi government has spent an unbelievable $87B to promote Wahhabism in the United States, Africa, Southeast Asia and Europe. According to official Saudi information, Saudi funds have been used to build and maintain over 1,500 mosques, 202 colleges, 210 Islamic Centers wholly or partly financed by Saudi Arabia, and almost 2,000 schools for educating Muslim children in non-Islamic countries in Europe, North and South America, Australia and Asia. [/quote]

Yea Monarchy's are violent towards their people, often twisting religions to gain power, as European history demonstrates. To bad the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia is a US ally, why do we turn a blind eye to their human rights violations...

Angels delivering the word of God VS God impregnates a virgin to have a human child....the latter is harder to believe. [/quote]

It is not an either or situation.  Both are absurd.

But generally Islam wants to combine political control with superstition.  That is where it becomes dangerous and morally wrong.[/quote]

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