Reply to I can't breathe . . . Minneapolis police kill a man in broad daylight

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[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]What was cop and guy killed doing that ended up with cop killing him by crushing his neck? [/quote]

Has any actual evidence been reported confirming the cause of death, i.e., strangulation, asphyxia, cervical dislocation, asthma, myocardial infarction, narcotics?  As opposed to post hoc ergo propter hoc conclusions?

The cop in question was a major-league foul ball who should have been off the force years ago.

The rioting, burning, looting and the rest are absolutely unacceptable.

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Let me come sit with my knee on your neck for 10 minutes and see if you're alive to debate whether my knee was the cause of any problems that result. [/quote]

Yeah. That’s not how it works. And you don’t seem to know much about anatomy. [/quote]

Adding:  and from the violent, threatening, and personal time of your response, it would appear that the answer to the question is “no,” and it really pisses you off that anyone would dare question your unsupported, conclusory opinion. [/quote]

I'm not threatening you. I have no idea who you are. I was demonstrating how ridiculous your logic is. If someone sits with their knee on someone's neck for 10 minutes, that person will likely suffocate. It's common sense.[/quote]

Things are not that simple. To suffocate an individual would require compression of the windpipe, which is difficult with lateral pressure, particularly in a large, muscular individual. The photos do seem to show the cop’s knee near to/on the right carotid, but carotid compression would black the individual out, not cause them to complain they could not breathe. The more likely explanation would appear to be positional asphyxia, the chest compressed by the individual’s own weight and that of the police to the point where lung expansion becomes progressively more difficult and then impossible[b]. Drug/alcohol intoxication would exacerbate this. The possibility remains, however, that death was from the drugs/alcohol, a heart attack, asthma or another idiopathic cause.[/b]  Coincidence in time between action and result does not equal causation. However bad the cop’s use of force might have looked or been, it is important to know what actually happened.

An overarching problem here and in other well known cases is the appalling lack of correspondence between the alleged precipitating offense (counterfeit money) and the end result (death). The man in New York accused of selling loose cigarettes and then choked to death Is another example, as is the mentally ill man accused of stealing car radios but then beaten to death by police. It’s not realistic to expect police to just let arrestees walk away if they refuse to cooperate, but there needs to be some middle ground where people don’t get killed over minor crimes. Police in many jurisdictions have abandoned the “win at all costs” attitude toward high speed pursuits, reserving them for only the most serious offenders. Street policing needs something like that.

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But even then, for the officer to continue with the knee on the neck, able to see what was happening to the guy as he became less and less conscious, to simply continue with the knee? There is also a duty of care for the officer, who at best seems to have refused to exercise such duty?[/quote]
When someone tells an officer ''I can't breathe'', (s)he suppose to put handcuffs and shackles on a guy and sit him up.  And call the ambulance right away, not when a man peeing himself and foaming blood out of his mouth already. The point is to get the guy in front of a judge, not in front of a pathologist.[/quote]

Again, I think nobody is doubting the officer's behavior was out of line. However, from a legal standpoint, the autopsy (or autopsies) and the exact cause of death are probably going to be very important here in the prosecution and defense's arguments. The prosecution still has an argument if the victim died of a heart attack or overdose, but the way that argument is presented is obviously going to change. [/quote]

How exactly does that work? Let's just say other factors contributed to his death--let's say if he had been a supremely healthy 25 year old he could have lived another 10 minutes with his lungs and arteries undergoing compression? (Young, healthy kids have died many, many times in prone restraints in settings, including public schools). REGARDLESS, you remain aware of what is happening to the person or else risk his death. How was the extended use of force necessary--especially after he lost consciousness altogether? Are you saying that people more likely to be suffering from an underlying condition may freely be tortured by cops because something else would contribute to their death? Is that like Covid by Cop--not a big deal because they likely would not have lived long anyway? Maybe we should cross out the names of people who die in police custody who have "underlying health conditions" like some people thing should be the case for covid deaths?

Even Andrew McCarthy on National Review is saying the officer's conduct was depraved indifference (part of the charge at this time, for third degree homicide)--he also says (and I thought so too) the officer should have been arrested much sooner on a probable cause complaint. [/quote]

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