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[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]If OP wants to hold up Pakistan as the educational model for the U.S., I'm not going to stop him. However, I will also conclude that he is very ignorant and hasn't attended a decent university himself.[/quote]

This is OP.

I am not foolish enough to want to hold up Pakistani Education system as the model for the U.S. We are a poor nation with a lot of issues.

As an American, I have been through the American education system as have my children and as someone who is foreign born, I am able to objectively look at the way the American higher education system is a waste most of the time.

In America college is not an institution of higher education but an "experience" where 18 year olds go into so they can play and party and socialize on their parents' dime for 4 years. Most of the curriculum for the first two years is overpriced if not downright unecessary. Students spend the first 2 years finishing up various "general ed" requirements. In a sesmester, a student takes 2 or 3 major courses and the rest of it is overpriced fluff. Classes end at around 11 am to 5pm per day. For the rest of the day the student goes and sleeps in his overpriced dormitory and then goes and partakes in unnecessary social rituals such as greek life. There are parties full of underage drinking almost every night. Some children get hurt.

So students live in this strange bubble for 4 years and then graduate with 100k in debt or more. Why can't they just take classes and live amonsgt normal people instead of being on a "campus" for 4 years?

The whole system is designed in a strange way.[/quote]

Since I am a strong believer in the value of a liberal arts education, I strongly disagree that general ed requirements are unnecessary. I was a political science major in college, but I also was required to take classes in other disciplines that were of interest or of use to me. I took calculus, French, sociology, and economic classes that were not required for my major. I also minored in English literature and so took classes in Shakespeare, 20th century British lit, early American lit, black American lit, modern drama, and a seminar on Faulkner. These classes contributed to my developing analytic skills, helped honed my writing skills, and sometimes were just plain fascinating. (The Faulkner seminar may have been the best class I ever took, including grad school.) These general ed classes helped make me a more educated, well-rounded person. I also was required to take 4 PE classes, in which I learned golf and archery, played soccer, and lifted weights. I don't believe those classes were a waste of my time.

Living in a dorm brought me life-long friends, coping skills, getting-along-with-others skills. I went to college 600 miles from home and was completely responsible for my own care and keeping for the first time in my life. I carefully budgeted my spending money to make sure I had enough to buy the books and supplies I needed as well as the fun I wanted. I paid my small number of bills and balanced my checking account. I cleaned my bathroom and washed my dishes. When I had medical issues, I took responsibility for going to the health center (or to the hospital when I broke my foot). In short, it was really good for me to go away from home and live at college. I had a happy family life, but taking care of yourself is another thing entirely. Had I remained at home for college, I would have continued to eat my mother's cooking and generally relied on my parents for things I was capable of doing for myself. IOW, staying home might have *delayed* my maturation process, not encouraged it.

Yes, I also had plenty of social life (though I was not involved in greek life). And that was a learning experience as well.

I graduated from college owing about $16k (in today's dollars). It was easily the best money I've spent in my life, and it was easily paid back.

Do I think children need to go away to college to get a good education and grow up? No. Do I think all children *should* go away to college? No. Do I think going away to college is worth borrowing $100k for? Absolutely not. (But borrowing some amount less than the equivalent of your expected first year salary after college can be a very reasonable investment.) Assuming no medical or other problems that require proximity to home, do I want my own kids to go away to college? Definitely yes.[/quote]

I am an involved citizen and valued worker because of my excellent liberal arts education at a top SLAC. I write well and am a sought after public speaker.  Because of these skills I have advanced in a STEM career very quickly.[/quote]

Sorry to say, you come across a well-trained narcissist more than anything else.[/quote]

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