Reply to Punishing your child by not letting them a birthday party last minute

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[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]People who punish their children instead of properly disciplining them don't do parenting right anyway. Flame away I don't care. All that child is learning right now is to be extremely sad and resentful towards the parents for not letting him/her go to the party. How about logical and natural consequences for bad behavior instead of parents just showing that they have the power to take away whatever they want from a child...

If your child behaves so badly that you feel the need to take away a birthday party where you are one of three invited and a close friend...maybe you've done something wrong along the way and your way of parenting isn't working very well to begin with...[/quote]

OK wise parenting one-- tell us how you would have handled this? I do think not attending a birthday party CAN be a natural consequence of bad behavior.  I tell my child all the time that only kids who behave can go out to dinner (for example) because kids who run around screaming aren't allowed in restaurants.  Likewise, kids who are out of control (or hit other kids or scream etc) are not welcome at birthday parties where they will have to play nicely with other children.  However...if I had RSVP'ed to attend a 3 person birthday party, I would not use that as the punishment unless it was really egregious.  If it was a 30 person, whole-class party at chuck-e-cheese, I might think differently.

[/quote]

I am going to reply even though you started with a snarky remark...

Taking away a birthday party is NEVER a natural consequence. "Natural consequence" means a consequence that occurs naturally by the childs behavior - not a punishment artificially given to the child. Not attending a birthday party also most likely wasn't even a logical consequence in this case. This would have been logical for example:

1. Child needs to wear sunscreen to the birthday party because it's a pool party and the sun is blazing.
2. Child refuses to wear sunscreen.
3. You say "Okay, don't wear sunscreen - but you can not go to the party then as it requires you wear sunscreen."

That is logical consequence. Not natural. Natural would be:

1. Child needs to wear sunscreen to the birthday party because it's a pool party and the sun is blazing.
2. Child refuses to wear sunscreen.
3. You say "Okay, don't wear sunscreen." Child goes to the party and gets a very bad sunburn. Sunburn = Natural consequence of not wearing sunscreen.

IN OPs CASE:

1. Kid behaves badly at home.
2. Kid goes to party anyway.
3. Kid behaves badly at party.
4. Kid gets to hear how other kids don't want to play because of bad behavior. Kid is sent home early because of bad behavior. THAT is the natural consequence.

IN YOUR CASE:

1. Kid behaves badly at home.
2. Kid goes to restaurant anyway.
3. Kid gets mean stares, bad comments from other customers, eventually the family has to leave. THAT is the natural consequence.

The point of natural consequences is to let children experience by themselves what their behaviors do to other people and in return the consequences it has for them. It means a lot of stepping back and holding back on the parents part.
The point of logical consequences is to intervene as a parent mostly before a natural consequence occurs to actively teach children right from wrong and to teach them consequences that usually aren't as harsh as natural ones would be.

And then there's punishment. That's a whole different story and that's what has happened here.

I can not say what the natural or logical consequence would have been for the child not allowed to go to the party because I do not know what exactly that child even did wrong in the first place...but that child was being punished, not shown natural OR logical consequence.[/quote]

Gotta say, with zero sarcasm, this is one of the best comments I've ever seen on dcum. So precise and explanatory! [/quote]

Except that the "natural" consequence of leaving the restaurant due to bad behavior punishes the whole family more than the kid. Maybe kid didn't want to be there and that's why he was acting up--they leave, he wins.

It's not always so cut and dry.[/quote]

No need to put "natural" in quotes. If you don't like to deal with natural consequences then be honest about it and use logical ones instead. If you don't want to deal with either form of consequences be honest about it and use punishment but don't go around telling people nothing else works for your child because the reason it doesn't is because you as parent chose not to stick with it and use the easier way instead. Nobody likes to hear it but it is the truth.
The natural consequence of a child acting up at a restaurant is that the child will be asked to leave - if the child is old enough child could be driven home by one parent and left alone for the rest of the night. If not one parent could leave with the child while everyone else stays. Or everyone could leave. It's not over with leaving the restaurant. Of course you also need to communicate how having to leave due to your childs behavior makes you feel. And the only reason this might not be affective is if a child has zero empathy (autistic kids for example) or if a child has been punished so long that at first using consequences doesn't seem affective. Stick with it and it will be. I know because I have worked with kids for over 10 years. I have met kids from all kinds of disciplinary backgrounds. Kids who were spanked. Kids who were punished. Kids who had no rules at home. Kids who were used to consequences as disciplinary tools. Kids who were just well behaved and kids who were all kinds of misbehaved. It is about being sincere, genuine and the most important part is communication.

The point is: Just saying "We don't yell in restaurants. No TV tonight." doesn't teach anything. It only punishes. And it makes kids try to avoid bad behavior because they don't want to be punished...not because they have learned that bad behavior is wrong and because they know how bad behavior affects others and they don't want to make others feel bad. Don't you want to raise socially skilled, empathetic children who later know right from wrong, have a conscience and WANT to treat others well because they know how their actions affect the world around them?[/quote]

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