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[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]

No according to my "beliefs"  [b]it wasn't necessary for religion to play a role. [/b] some people were motivated by their religious beliefs, but others without those beliefs and/or with different beliefs,were motivated to do the same things, because they were simply good, humanistic things to do -- that's the "innate moral sense" you mention - beliefs in a supernatural deity with a set of ancient rules attached to it are not needed for this.[/quote]

You're actually a great example of conflict between the facts and your own beliefs. I second the other PP in suggesting that you read up on historical figures (abolitionists, Civil Rights workers, Ghandi, others) who wrote and spoke eloquently about the importance of religion in guiding their moral values. Key here is that they talk about how [b]their motivation came from the religious values themselves[/b], not just the fear of hell that you want to use as a convenient way to dismiss religion. You simply can't "choose to believe" that religion played no role, or merely a negative role (fear), in these peoples' lives.[/quote]

That strengthens the case that religious values and humanist values can be the same.    I DO believe that religion played a role in some people's good works, and that it is motivated by the underlying humanism -- thus no fear of hell -- which would play a part in the decision of some religious people to do good works.[/quote]

You need to decide what you're talking about. It seems all muddled in the above quote.

You can say this: "religion is motivated by underlying humanism." Many of us would disagree, but the difference is about having faith, or not.

You cannot accurately say this: "Some peoples do good works and they think they're being motivated by religion but actually they're being motivated by underlying humanism."  No, the record from Gandhi, MLK and others is that they believed they were motivated by religious principles and by their faith in higher powers. You're attributing motives to these people that they themselves would strenously deny - don't you think they know their motives better than you do? [/quote]

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