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[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]Penn for sure. No one seriously thinks you have more opportunity at Williams unless they’re a lousy student[/quote]

obviously there are far more opportunities at UPenn, but it's not about quantity, it's about quality. Williams has more opportunities than anyone attending could possibly utilize within four years, so that Williams offers 700 courses and UPenn offers 2500 isn't particularly meaningful unless you want to do cutting edge graduate level coursework (which most students at either school do not).

Williams, as a school with a 6:1 student to faculty ratio (vs. Penn's 8:1), a distinctive Oxford style tutorial program offering 2:1 student to faculty classes, and an honors program with a known track record of producing more academics per capita than UPenn (12th nationally vs. 90th), offers potentially the strongest quality of undergraduate education you can get in any college in America. 58% of UPenn classes are under 20 students, compared to 75% of Williams classes. Williams professors' top priority is their undergraduates; the academic advising and individualized mentorship is unbeatable. 80-90% of Williams students applying get into med school in a given year, whereas UPenn has historically ranged from 71-83%. In fact, Williams is a stronger feeder than UPenn for students enrolling at top medical schools per capita (though UPenn still ranks top 20 nationally).

Williams does all this while still doing comparably for feeding into Wall Street and top business schools at comparable rates to UPenn, in case you want to make an argument that Wharton has more professionally oriented students. 
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Let’s cut the fat.

It has a study abroad program in Oxford- doesn’t matter, you can do that from many other schools.

Tutorial is a course you only take once or a few times if you’re in the humanities. The tutorial options in STEM are skim and may not even be relevant for what you want to do. Also, other colleges discovered Independent Study decades ago.

Honors is just a thesis, nothing special.

Most of Penn and Williams courses are small. Penn has more students so there’s more range. It’s actually more impressive such a high percentage of people go to med school from a school as large as Penn- they’re clearly challenging students and getting them opportunities.

What does UPenn have? Multiple massive medical centers- some of the most important ones in their state. Many more research, advising, and shadowing opportunities. More funding for clubs related to healthcare. More talks, more visiting scholars, more everything. If you have any ambition at all, it makes more sense to go to Penn.[/quote]

[b]Apparently UPenn's advantages in having more access for medical opportunities do not matter if Williams has a comparable medical school acceptance rate and placement to top medical programs on a student adjusted basis. That's the whole point. UPenn is NOT superior to Williams in terms of outcomes, even if their undergrads have direct access to opportunities from a top ranked medical school. [/b]Williams students have enough distinctive aspects on their profile to be competitive. That's the argument you somehow fail to get, that it's not about the quantity, it's about the quality.

UPenn boosters think that career preparation is the end all be all. Williams students go to Williams because it is a once in a lifetime opportunity to be on first hand terms with virtually all of your professors, unlike the vast majority of schools. It is an opportunity to explore widely and openly without any judgement, knowing you'll get a top notch education no matter what department you choose. The point is that Williams has a tutorial system for coursework that is easy to participate in and heavily advertised; at least 50% of their grads participate. How many UPenn students even take an independent study? Do they care about building deep relations with their peers and professors, or is it just all for the rat race? Williams students WANT a well-rounded, holistic liberal arts education; many STEM majors there will eagerly take non-STEM humanities simply for the intellectual fulfillment. The average UPenn STEM student sees humanities and social science requirements as an obstacle to be completed with the least resistance as possible.

There is published research on this that despite R1 graduates slightly outperforming baccalaureate colleges in terms of average MCAT score, the latter have higher medical school acceptance rates. And the reason is because the participation on high impact practices (HIPS)- things like study abroad, thesis, research, connections to faculty members- is considerably higher at those undergraduate focused schools. Take that analogy to UPenn vs. Williams and you get a similar account. UPenn students may be slightly stronger on average than Williams students, UPenn's science programs may be more competitive in preparing their grads for the MCAT than those at Williams, yet the level of individual advising and the average participation on HIPS helps their grads stand out. [/quote]

College Transitions has a ranking of undergraduate schools as feeders to top medical schools (adjusted for undergraduate enrollment) and Williams ranks 14 vs Penn at 20.  https://www.collegetransitions.com/dataverse/top-feeders-medical-school/

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