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[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]I was just talking to my sister about this this weekend. She was recalling a conversation she had with my dad in high school where she explained to him that she could put in low/medium effort and do pretty well (A-/B+) or put in extraordinary effort and really excel (A/A+) - but that the first choice seemed to make a lot more sense. To this, my father replied “honey, you’ve figured out the secret to life. I’m so proud.” Thirty years later “slacker” sister is doing just as well as our sibling who put in the extra effort, and arguably, is much happier.

Not going to lie, I’m still pretty inclined to push my kids but there really is a point of diminishing returns. If they’re on track to be healthy, contributing adults I wouldn’t sweat it too much.[/quote]

The thing is, our children live in a different world. Your sister didn't have to compete with the pool of extremely driven, talented immigrants like our children do. You could pretty much coast to an upper middle class life. You can't count on this anymore. Maybe it will happen, maybe not - but the odds are definitively different from what they were 30 years ago.[/quote]
Um there is plenty of homegrown talent. Competition is stiffer partly bc thanks to the internet, people have heard of all the really good schools that wouldn’t have geographically been on their radar several decades ago. Can’t believe you’re yelling “IMMIGRANTS!” on a post about kids[/quote]

I am an immigrant myself, I am not yelling "immigrants". The fact is that there is much more competition globally and that Harvard has more than a quarter of their college filled with international students. I was one of a handful of such students many years ago, now my own kids are facing at least 10 times as many.

And even if increasing competition were merely due to homegrown talent, the points remains that it's a different world today. You can't just phone it in to an upper middle class lifestyle.[/quote]

Well look around most middle class and upper middle class people went to state schools and even 2nd tier state schools.

Your an immigrant, you haven't figured this out yet? [/quote]

This is not about brand schools. Sure, you can be rich and successful coming from any school. But increasingly you won't be able to do so without being really ambitious and putting in the work. The kind of work that today's kids trying for top colleges are putting. The low effort jobs won't be enough to allow the children to live the kind of life their parents did.

I a lot of people here still seem to be live that the average person can have a really comfortable life, like they used to, because 30 years ago their cousin blah blah blah... I don't think this is going to be the case.[/quote]

Well you are wrong.

but you can torture your child and they will have anxiety and depression from your insane parenting. [/quote]

Wouldn't that make you happy, huh? Wouldn't you love for the hard working kids to be miserable, you, the, non-competitive, easy going person full of kindness?[/quote]

Dp  This is prime example of distorted thinking.  [b]Why would pp or anyone want 'hard working kids'  to be miserable[/b]?  Why is the choice is only between 'hard working' and doing nothing?  There are more examples of kids who are overworked and stressed due to parental pressure.  But that does not mean anyone wishes ill will on these kids. We feel for them!

I remember reading a book that dealt with this topic and it was very interesting:  https://www.amazon.com/Overachievers-Secret-Lives-Driven-Kids/dp/140130902X[/quote]

A lot of people are envious and insecure of their own parenting choices. They are literally hoping that children who are pushed by their parents (as they see it - it might not even be true, as they don't really know much other kids are studying or what their parents are telling them) fail in school and careers, and/or hate their parents as adults. PP is literally hoping that my child (as they see them) will suffer from anxiety and depression because of my "insane parenting". It will validate their parenting philosophy and show that their child is the one ahead, after all.

These are the same people who preach laid back parenting based on kindness and understanding. In reality, they just want (what appear to be accomplished) kids to fail. "See, I told you, my B student is now a CEO while your valedictorian is taking medication."[/quote]

You can say the same for 'hard working kids' parents to wish failure on those kids who aren't pushed by their parents to fail. See I told you have to push your kids!  Billy is working at Wendy's because his parents didn't force him to get all As!  So meanness goes BOTH ways!

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