Reply to I don't understand asking for prayer. Why does God need prayer?

Forum Index » Religion

Reply to "I don't understand asking for prayer. Why does God need prayer?"

Subject:

Emoticons





More smilies

Text Color: Font: Close Marks

[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]Rationalistic and mechanistic explanations will fail.  The bottom line is that we are commanded to pray and we do so because it is fitting (to God's glory) and obedient, even if it doesn't get us "what we want".  As Christ prayed to the Father, after making his request:  "Nevertheless not my will, but Yours be done".  And as Job said, "Though he slay me, I will hope in him;
yet I will argue my ways to his face."

You are right that he knows all things and therefore has no need of our prayers. [b] Yet he delights in our prayers[/b] and it is fitting to his glory that he receives them.[/quote]

Well, with all due respect, there is no way you can possibly know what God delights in. In the OT he delighted in burnt offerings, but that kinda fell by the wayside as time went on and verbal prayers seem to have taken their place. I seriously question if God ever really wanted burnt offerings.[/quote]

So there's no way I can know but there is a way you can know?  I thought we were more or less talking within an Abrahamic religions framework here.  And my reference to Christ made Christian presuppositions self-evident.  If you want the conversation to be more of a dope-smoking "like, how do we even know we're not, like, in a matrix, man" then you've lost me.

Christian teaching is not that burnt offerings "fell by the wayside" but that burnt offerings were Old Testament sacrifice typology that was pointing to the final sacrifice of Jesus Christ.  Obviously Jews and Muslims will disagree with this based on their traditions, but I'm speaking from mine.[/quote]

Prayers are just the verbal equivalent of burnt offerings. Intended to find favor with God for one reason or another.  [/quote]

No. [b]Prayers are a way to get to know God.[/b] And to put your thoughts in order and meditate. CS Lewis writes about this if you’re interested, which you aren’t. [/quote]

Most people pray to ask God for something. Maybe they didn't read C.S. Lewis[/quote]

No. As an atheist, you wouldn't know what people pray for, so it's a little funny that you're trying to tell us how we pray.

Mostly it's to review our day, [b]ask[/b] forgiveness, ask for help to do the right thing. Here's the Lord's Prayer, which is how Jesus taught Christians to pray.

Our Father, who art in heaven, hallowed be thy name. 
Thy kingdom come, 
thy will be done, on earth as it is in heaven. 
[b]Give us[/b] this day our daily bread. 
And [b]forgive[/b] us our trespasses, as we forgive those who trespass against us. 
And l[b]ead us[/b] not into temptation, but [b]deliver us[/b] from evil.
For thine is the kingdom, the power, and the glory.
Amen

Other faiths will have different takes. I know Muslims say there's no God but Allah, although maybe a Muslim can chime in for more. [/quote]

So, the prayer is primarily to ask for something?[/quote]

Why can't you at least admit that it's not about praying for a basketball victory?

If you're outraged that someone is asking for forgiveness, or not to be led into temptation, then you've got bigger issues. This is why it's hard to take DCUM's atheists seriously. Or to respect them. [/quote]

Um, I admit it is not just about praying for a basketball victory. (And I never said it was.  Maybe somebody else did.). I am in no way outraged.

I also posted earlier that I am a non-believer who wishes they could believe.

Now, can you admit that a good portion of prayer IS asking for something? Can we have a civil conversation in good faith?[/quote]

The only "bad faith" I see is on the atheist side with the dumb jokes about praying for basketball victories (yes, one of you did say that), buying indulgences, and Jesus wanting free bread.

I struggle to understand why you have a problem with asking for forgiveness. Or asking to avoid temptation. Only God can grant these, so yes, humans ask for them. What exactly is your problem with these asks? These in no way fit the picture you/your co-atheists are painting here, which is that prayer is all about asking for goodies.[/quote]

Yes there is an atheist on this thread that I do not associate myself with.  It would be a mistake to assume all non-believers are the same.

Let’s set aside the “goodies” ask and even the forgiveness ask.  The asks in the Lord’s Prayer for “daily bread” and even deliverance from evil are asks to avoid or ease suffering. And outside of the Lord’s Prayer, it is common to ask for relief from suffering. That is the part I can not reconcile and that prevents me from believing.[/quote]

Christian here, and I agree with you insofar as prayers certainly do ask for things, even things which we perceive that we should get by our own actions.  Like our daily bread.  Asking for our daily bread is an acknowledgment (and legitimate request) that all good things come directly by his hand ("every good and perfect gift" as James says).  If someone has a high view of God's sovereignty, like I do, they believe that every breath they take, every heartbeat, every blink is brought about by God's proximate action.  There is not some other life force by which I can take a breath that is "notGod". [/quote]

PP here.  Thank you, sincerely.

Can I ask whether you believe that you get more or less of these gifts from god depending on whether or not you pray for them?[/quote]

That is a very difficult question!  Paul writes in Ephesians that God is "able to do far more abundantly than all that we ask or think," so in my better moments I trust in that principle.  And I trust that God desires far better for me than I can even imagine to desire for myself.

But to answer more directly:  Christ himself, uniquely perfect, was viciously beaten and murdered.  The apostles (with the exception of the exiled John) all met violent ends, often after a lifetime of beatings and imprisonment.  And these were the closest to Christ.  And in that context Paul wrote that "I consider that our present sufferings are not worth comparing with the glory that will be revealed in us."  So I do hope and pray for God's gifts now, but it seems our greatest saints endured much suffering in this life, placing their hope in the life to come.[/quote]

Options

	Disable HTML in this message
	Disable BB Code in this message
	Disable smilies in this message

Review message

Search Recent Topics Hottest Topics