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[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]Christian Democrats and lots of Republican Christians and other religious are against that too, OP. Atheists don't hold a monopoly on fighting to maintain the separation of church and state.[/quote]

That's true.  And Christians don't believe in any supernatural phenomena other than their own.  But they do believe in their own, and that is a political problem, and a problem for the rest of us who do not believe in it.

[b]I just think we'll be a much better, stronger and smarter country once people have voluntarily, logically, and of their own accord given up reliance on supernatural beliefs.[/b][/quote]

Lenin, Stalin and Mao agree.

Seriously, though, hyperbole like your OP just makes the people you’re concerned about harden their positions. I say this as someone who’s appalled by Trump’s Supreme Court nominees and the end of Roe v. Wade. Instead give a thought to psychology and ease up on the hyperbole. [/quote]

[i]Lenin, Stalin and Mao[/i]?  Who is dealing in hyperbole and propaganda now?

Check my bolded parts in the statement "we'll be a much better, stronger and smarter country [b]once people have voluntarily, logically, and of their own accord given up reliance on supernatural beliefs[/b]."

I believe people are capable of this type of growth, and the fact that non-belief is the fastest growing segment by a multiple supports that belief. They just need to know it is OK with society for them to follow the logic to that position.[/quote]

I’m in awe of your arrogance. I’m a faithful person and I am quite aware that I contribute to making this country “better, stronger, and smarter” in my role as a high school teacher. Yes, I believe in God. I believe it takes courage and conviction to have faith in the unseen. I don’t push my beliefs on others, though.

The fact you are? I wonder which of us is more dangerous. [/quote]

Sorry, but my post was not about you, or any individual.

"We'll be a much better, stronger and smarter country once people have voluntarily, logically, and of their own accord given up reliance on supernatural beliefs"

If you teach high school - a worthy and contributory endeavor, thank you - then you certainly can understand the difference.

ps no need to ad hominem along with your point, I did not respond in kind on purpose.[/quote]

Yet you are speaking directly to me if you want people to “voluntarily, logically, and of their own accord” give up beliefs. I have beliefs, strongly held ones that direct my sense of morality and the direction of my endeavors. They are most definitely rooted in faith. If I follow your argument from previous threads (and I assume they are yours considering the similar words), you desire a country in which we no longer participate in various religions. You say you are not speaking to any one individual, but aren’t you calling for people (individuals) to “grow” into non-belief? Am I reading your posts wrong?

Yes, I find this type of thinking arrogant. It assumes that my path is inherently wrong and that I must “grow” into something that I find contrary to my values.

I wouldn’t presume to tell you to adopt my beliefs, nor would I suggest you need to grow out of yours.
[/quote]

No, I am [b]definitely NOT speaking directly to you[/b].  I don't know you.  I have no idea what you believe and also didn't ask you to change.  I didn't ask you to adopt my beliefs.  I said, again:

[i]We'll be a much better, stronger and smarter country once people have voluntarily, logically, and of their own accord given up reliance on supernatural beliefs[/i]

I see supernatural beliefs rapidly disappearing in the US as all the polls show, and I see a lot of harm being done in their name.  So I think we'll all be better off when that is finally over, although it will likely not be in my lifetime.  I think when people really evaluate the supernatural, and the lack of evidence for it, they will voluntarily abandon it, especially if societal pressures don't inhibit that.  But I DON'T think people should be made to do it, and I certainly don't think I will change your mind here in this anonymous forum.

You are taking this very personally, and I wonder why? I do not want to speculate so maybe you can explain?

If you'd like to sincerely and rationally discuss your specific beliefs, I am pleased to do that - in fact I welcome it  -  but my intention was not to debate individuals about what they believe in this thread, so I will leave that up to you.[/quote]

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