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[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]And here it is. They’re going to lean into the abortion ban ahead of the midterms. The lesson of Trump: always double down.

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This is a [b]gimmick[/b].  Republicans have realized that the majority of Americans are opposed to total abortion bans and the Republicans want to paint themselves as the rational ones here by banning them after 15 weeks- and they will then make outlandish claims that all democrats want people to get abortions on demand up until the moment of delivery.  [/quote]

:lol:  :lol:  :lol:

Republicans: let's introduce legislation that has broad popular support
Democrats: that's a gimmick![/quote]

I am the PP you are responding to and I am not a Democrat.  I am a former R but not a Democrat.  I would never personally get an elective abortion and am not particularly fond of the idea of people doing so but don't think legislators should be the ones makes these decisions.  I don't care how popular the legislation I- not everything should be subject to popularity contests.

Republicans have completely lost me with this nonsense and gaslighting about late term abortions.  Anyone who is getting an abortion past 15 weeks is doing so for reasons that are absolutely none of my business and are likely incredibly hard to deal with.  [/quote]

PP here, I've been a Republican since the second half of college. I don't agree with everything the Republican party has done, but it represents my viewpoints the best so I've stuck with the party. There is undeniably a compelling state interest in protecting human life, including those that are unborn. The difficulty has been in establishing the standard for that interest, not that if such an interest exists at all. Whether we like it or not, everything is up for a popularity contest - even the issues where there is no explicit contest, means there is lack of popular desire to change the issue from the current state of lack of regulation.

Regarding late term abortions, this is not gaslighting at all - [b]it's the mainstream position of the Democrats to protect such a right.[/b] They even passed it in the House: Women’s Health Protection Act (WHPA). Go read it, as long as the pregnancy is determined as a risk to the mother's health - a standard which is not defined in the act and is therefore wide open - abortion can be performed at any time. [/quote]

I math PP you are responding to- the way that the Republican Party misrepresent this position is that they say that Democrats want to maintain abortion up until the moment of conception for the convenience of mothers who decide before their due dates that they want to abort.  You say right in your post that the position is to protect the health of the mother, not for convenience.  What do you mean it is wide open- that the doctor and the woman should be the ones that decide?  That is certainly preferable to politicians deciding each case.

On the first paragraph- I disagree that what a woman does with her body should be up to a popularity contest (even though it is in the US).  In many countries it is not and is a fundamental right no matter who is in power.  As I stated before I am generally against abortion as a concept for elective purposes and I used to think that meant I was pro-life.  But it just means that I personally would not decide to have an abortion and, even if I don't like it I don't think the state should be able to prevent women who do want it from doing so.

You can argue all you want that the state has an interest in protecting the life of the unborn.  But this is not a foregone conclusion- it certainly isn't in the Constitution.  Is it no more a foregone conclusion than saying a state has an "interest" in an embryo or sperm.  And in the end you cannot divorce this "interest" from the woman carrying the fetus.  So once you start weighing interests of something that is not born and could not be born without being part of the mother then you are saying that a fetus has more rights than a woman.

If you had told me 25 years ago that this would be the issue that made me leave the Republican party I would have laughed at you- but to me individual rights are more important than states rights and Republicans seem hell bent in taking away individuals rights and freedoms.  I am so sick of conservatives blathering about gay people and trans people in order to get votes- just the enormous amounts of taxpayer money spent on some of these exclusionary bills is mind boggling.  Let people be gay, them them be trans, let them do what they want in the bedroom or with their bodies and focus back on the damn economy.  [/quote]

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