Reply to Is it ethical to outsource pregnancy?

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[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]People are so effing crazy, as evidenced by this thread.

As others have said, if the surrogate is willing and not coerced and you compensate well then of course this is ethical. People die doing construction work all the time but no one questions the ethics of hiring a crew to build you something.

If everyone involved has free will and is being treated well, then all the consenting adults are making their own choices and everything is, IMO, fully ethical. [/quote]

Then why can't you buy organs from people? It's actually less risky to have part of your liver removed or a kidney fully removed than pregnancy and childbirth. Answer: it's exploitation of the bodies of other humans. We can't use the poor for organ farms and we shouldn't use them as womb rentals.

And paying a lot does not equal making things ethically OK. I have a bunch of money so I want to shoot endangered animals. Is that morally OK if I pay the animals' owners well?[/quote]

So if you pay a rich woman to have your baby and don't help any poor person your choice becomes ethically pure? Organ donation ethics are very complicated honestly. It isn't as easy as saying one thing is right and one thing is wrong. And of course your animal analogy makes no sense because the harmed party there (animals) is not a consenting being. [/quote]

There's a non-consenting BABY in this scenario. How do you know they won't feel harmed in the future?

And my analogy about the animals is--just because you compensate someone well doesn't make a thing right. You said being well-paid was a criterion for it being ethical.

And who in the world thinks buying human organs is ethical??? There are certainly grey areas about recipient choice but that's different.
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My primary criterion was that there were consenting parties who were consenting without a substantial power imbalance and the animal analogy fails that completely. Your point about the baby being a harmed party here makes me think we have vastly different views on a core fact of this debate. If we believe that the baby is harmed via surrogacy there are other ethical issues that I do not address. I do not believe the baby is harmed via surrogacy so those points are about a fundamentally different ethical question. One that does pose pretty stark and distressing implications to the world of adoption.

There is a lot of debate around kidney donation ethics. If you have two people who are down on their luck for whatever reasons and one is able to donate their kidney for 100k and the other is not because of ethical laws in their country, is the person in the 'ethical' country better off? There is a lot of dehumanization there and removal of free will and decision making. How about all the other people in the 'ethical' society who are in kidney failure (something that effects the rich and poor). If there was a market price for a kidney and a bunch of people donated their kidneys as a result and improved their financial position while also saving a life would that really be unethical? Of course an 'organ farm' of poor people would be abhorrent. But there is a grey area there where the 'right' choice is simply not black and white. Real difficult ethical questions are generally not black and white.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/in-theory/wp/2015/12/30/the-moral-case-for-paying-kidney-donors/[/quote]

Since you love reading about ethically areas you should read some of the stories about unhappy adoptees. Esp international ones- some of them definitely claim harm.

And if you are so enmeshed in and accepting of an American Capitalist society that you find it OK that a human being should be so poor that selling an organ is tempting--- I don't know what more we have to say. That's not the answer to getting people out of poverty- blame the unethical society we live in not people that are trying to hold the line against further bodily exploitation of the poor.

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