Reply to To those that believe the elderly should always make their own decisions

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[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]I was one of those social workers who investigate people for elder abuse. What I did in reality wasn’t anything like that sounds. Someone would call us worried about an elder, and I’d go figure out what was going on, and do everything I could to help. I did lots of listening, hand holding, phone calling insurance plans, finding Medicaid beds in assisted living, lining up care givers, and finding mental health providers. Oh, and lots of cleaning for people with hoarding disorders. My clients were almost always mentally ill or had some level of dementia. It was truly, truly rare to have a situation where some one was abusing an elder for malicious reasons. It was almost always a situation where physical health and mental health decline simply made the family system collapse. Unless there was violence or outright theft of assets no one was ever “brought up on charges” or “charged with elder abuse.” We were just social workers, not police, and the only tools we had were help.

OP, I know this is hard. I hope you find some peace and some enjoyment this holiday season.[/quote]

Haven't you encountered the elder who is able to present as absolutely logical, or who at least is able to present as legally competent but exercises rights to his/her own decision making? And perhaps a spouse who is totally on board, or presents as being totally onboard? I'm thinking of 2 situations. One where an elder relative wanted help from adult services but due to problems with decision making let others make the call, and when investigated still wanted the help but was deemed too capable (his physician, nurse, and the social worker they worked with knew better, but adult services  gave a thumbs down). And one involving hoarding, some long standing MH diagnosis where treatment is refused but where the mental situation is not dire enough to warrant hospitalization, even though the hoarding has long reached the point where it is life and health threatening. [/quote]

Yes, for sure I’ve encountered those situations. Unless a person has significant dementia or is truly psychotic they generally retain the right to make terrible decisions. It’s a tricky balance and I don’t envy the doctors and judges who together make these calls. [b]In the few times in my work where an elder did have a guardian appointed and that guardian forced something like a nursing home or a move the elder often did not thrive in the new setting. It makes kids feel like they have done the right thing to have a parent miserable, angry, and depressed (but safe) in a nursing home rather than somewhat content (and at high risk of death) while home alone. I don’t entirely understand. I’ve spent plenty of time in nursing homes, and personally I’d rather take my chances with a fall and lingering death on the floor alone. So I give my own parents (and gave my clients, where they were legally competent) the same respect for their preferences[/b].[/quote]

I can't with this. So the parent has the 'sads' but is safe, warm and fed. EVIL KIDS, clearly. I guess I should let my parents live in a home they can't afford, have it sold out from under them to pay for debt they incur. Maybe they can lose their last asset that can pay for their care, but hey, they are happy so why not, right?

This is why I can't stand social workers. You are all about 'the feels' and not the practicality of the situation. Did you NOT read the earlier post about the poster who said her grandfather starved her grandmother to death? Do you let toddlers wander outside in snowstorms in a diaper because they might tantrum in warm clothing?[/quote]

I’m the psychologist PP above: you’re either not understanding or choosing not to consider adults’ agency in these scenarios.  Once someone turns 18 and is a legal adult, the standards for obtaining legal guardianship are very, very high.  You can debate whether they should be so stringent, but hating on social workers is unfair and misplaced anger.  They don’t make the laws.

The grandfather starving the grandmother is similar to intimate partner violence scenarios, in which the abused partner chooses to stay.  There’s almost nothing another adult can do, legally, to force that person to leave.  Someone upthread suggested the grandchild in that case should have reported her grandfather to adult protective services, only to be told by someone else (you?) that would have meant more problems.  These situations are rarely as straightforward as they may seem to be from the outside.[/quote]

NP.  You are diverting.  You weren't talking about how difficult it is to get a guardianship; you described a situation where kids *did* get guardianship, moved the parent into a facility, and the parent was unhappy with it.  
(I bolded it for you above.) You then said you didn't understand the decision, and would rather take your chances with a fall and lingering death on the floor.  (Lovely, by the way.)  As the PP said, you're advocating that kids who have guardianship should still respect their parents' preferences even if it puts them at risk.

So this talk of "agency" is nonsense.  This is a situation where courts have decided that the parent can't be trusted to exercise their own agency.

You're also got a lot of nerve accusing the PP not not understanding, when you are mischaracterizing your statements.  [/quote]

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