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[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]These consequences of contraception were forecast when it became widely available:

--A general lowering of morality in society 
--A general disregard for the physical and psychological health of women by men
--Coercive use of "family planning" by governments and societies
--Dehumanization of persons[/quote]

1) So we're less moral now than, say, Victorian England, where there were tens of thousands of prostitutes in London alone? 
2) So you're saying that men were nicer 100 years ago than today? 
3) Outside of China where is this being done? Sex-selection abortions are merely applications of traditional morality using modern tools (ultrasound/abortion). 
4) So we dehumanize on the level of say Sparta, where unwanted/apparently weak kids were left out to die? Infanticide has been the norm for most of human history. [/quote]

All of these human failings have been around since humans have been around, but they have all taken on a new depth and breadth:

#1  What is on TV now, versus the 1950s?  What is on the cover of magazines, in movies?  What about rates of divorce, suicide, drug and alcohol abuse, child abuse, child pornography, pornography use, out of wedlock births, abortion, sexual assault, unfaithfulness?  None of these things are new, but we sure are more coarse about them.

#2  Men have always tended towards selfishness.  But now they have different reasons to indulge.  Sexism has new tools.

#3  Coercive "family planning" policies happen all over the globe, not just China.  But it's not just government programs.  It's societal attitudes.  Children shift from gifts to burdens, accidents, mistakes, choices--their value is tied to their "wantedness," their usefulness, rather than intrinsic.  They need to prove their worth to their parents and to society.  Are they "planned"?  Healthy?  Well-provided for?  A boy and a girl, no more?  Do they fit with their parents' desire for travel, eating out frequently, frenetic work schedules?  This shift of thinking is profound, and goes way beyond government-forced sterilizations and abortions.

#4  Sparta was one tiny society.  The global impact of dehumanization, combined with technology, is far more profound, and takes their primitive way of thinking to an unfathomable level.  Babies can be created and destroyed, harvested and utilized, cultivated and bred, tested and eliminated, all well before birth.  People become parts, not persons.

There is nothing new under the sun.  But separating sex and procreation corrupts something fundamental to our humanity.  The low European birth rate is just one manifestation of this fact.[/quote]

Too bad we can't be more like Saudi Arabia.  By every one of your (prudish) metrics, they're a more moral, decent society than ours.  You're not affiliated with the American Taliban by any chance?[/quote]

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