Reply to Do prayers really work and if they do is it fair?

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[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]

Your logic makes no sense here. [b] Judas had free will, but Jesus knew he would make the wrong choice[/b].  That doesn’t mean that Jesus actively influenced his choice because the trajectory of events had to be a certain way.

God knows what you will do in the end.  What matters is that you don’t.  It’s really not that complicated nor a conspiracy.[/quote]

Judas had free will, but Jesus knew he would make the wrong choice

You can say this again!  :lol:

You really have not to see the irony of it. [/quote]

Yeah there’s no irony.  I can know something will happen.  It doesn’t mean I exert active control over the event.  You know the sun will rise tomorrow.  You know your kid will eat a cookie left on the counter.  The event is not really related to your control or lack thereof.[/quote]

Not the PP, but respectfully, the sun has no choice as to the orbit of the bodies around it.  And to compare the eating of a cookie to the betrayal of a peer resulting in his violent death is a false equivalency.

But if it weren't, there still is a chance your kid won't eat the cookie.  You can't know.  (Maybe he didn't see it, maybe the dog gets it first, maybe he chooses to do the right thing as you taught him, maybe he is feeling nauseous...). So that analogy wouldn't work even if it were equivalent.

But most importantly, if Jesus knew because of some omniscience, then clearly Judas had no free will, even if he did not think so.  The two concepts are incompatible.  This is one of the main failings of the omniscient god position.[/quote]

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