Reply to S/O Do women play "hard to get" anymore?

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[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]It seems to me that op is conflating the loss of that particular seduction-storyline (the loss of ‘playing hard to get’ that girls/women used to do) with the loss of all seduction.

Get some new moves :)

Btw, you might have remembered them from long ago because you were interacting with women/girls who were also younger and didn’t know how to respond with surety. [/quote]

Doesn't "seduction" necessarily include an element of overcoming reluctance? (Even if the reluctance is pretend?) There has to be an element of coaxing involved in seduction, right? How can you "seduce" if both parties are forthright about being happy to get to an end result?

The only way I can see seduction, of a sort, without reluctance is in a role playing scenario where you agree to the scene beforehand. Then the reluctance and overcoming it is part of the scene.

If I'm wrong, and you can describe a scenario that involves seduction without reluctance or coaxing, I'd appreciate it. [/quote]

It depends on how you define seduction. If I'm on a date and not sure whether I want to sleep with the guy, a positive "seduction" would be having a great date where we had fun together, he paid attention to me and showed me his interest in me wasn't just about getting me into his bed. But if we get to the end of the date, you've brought me home and I don't invite you inside, making up excuses for why you need to come in and then, once inside, trying to grab me and kiss me despite me saying it's late and you should go, that's not a good thing you're doing, even if you eventually get me to do something with you (because I might just be doing it not out of desire but out of fear that if I don't give in, you'll do something even worse).[/quote]

Well, o.k. If hanging out, having a good time, and not trying to get into her pants counts as "seduction," then I suppose I can see it. But that just sounds like a date. But that's not what comes to mind when I hear someone use the term "moves" (as PP referred to them) or "seduction." [/quote]

And therein lies the problem. These things seem totally okay you because that’s how it’s always been but now women are speaking up to say they really don’t like it when you do it, only to be told by an awful lot of men that women are wrong about not liking it because it’s worked for men in the past. No, we didn’t like it, we just didn’t have the social support we needed to feel safe saying we didn’t like it. Now we have that support and are saying it, and you have a choice. You can choose to listen to us, believe us, and adjust your behavior because you don’t want to make women uncomfortable or hurt them in some way, or you can continue to believe the only thing that matters is getting what you want in the moment, regardless of who you hurt (physically or mentally/emotionally). You can do the latter without getting into legal trouble, but you can’t do it and still be a good guy.[/quote]

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