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[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]It's also highly likely that a kid who goes to a college like Harvard or Chicago or Hopkins hoping to learn to write well and think critically will get to know at least a few professors well. Most professors are eager to share their intellectual passion with students who are interested in learning.  [/quote]

Actually, that's not what I hear from the students I know currently at Harvard and Chicago.  [/quote]

I guess we know different kids.[/quote]

At any research university profs will focus on grad students.  [/quote]

Not true -- I've been the undergrad, the grad student, and the prof in a number of such universities and that's not what I've seen or experienced in any of them.  It's not what I'm seeing as a parent either.

Nor, as a prof, have I seen anything that indicates that kids who go to LACs end up with better writing or critical thinking skills.  Seems to depend more on the student than the school.  And it's not the case that the best teachers gravitate to LACs.  So many other factors determine which available job is most attractive one.

Yes, some good teachers (and some good researchers for that matter) get lost in the tenure process at major research universities.  But by focussing less on research, LACs don't necessarily tenure better teachers.  No one's measuring (and other faculty rarely observe) how well profs teach.  They're looking at student reviews, and what students like in a course (or about a professor) may or may not involve learning to write well or think critically.  So we're back to student satisfaction is the goal of LACs -- not a superior education.  [/quote]

As a fellow prof (at a Research I), I have to respectfully disagree. I think that some of your experience comes from your own abilities and trajectory. Most undergrads at universities are not going into academia, so they are not going to catch the attention of profs, nor are they particularly interested in getting to know faculty better. You were also probably a really good student, as most PhDs and professors were; we often went into academia because we were really good students. Also, as a parent, you have likely transferred skills--intentionally or not-- to your own children about how they can make full use of the faculty at the university. I would say that about 95% of my students never visit me during office hours; but, I am fairly confident that my own kids will very likely seek out their professors during office hours because they have believed since birth that this is what students are supposed to do. Having attended both a liberal arts college (AWS) and large research universities for my graduate degrees, I would strongly encourage my own children to at least look at LACs for undergrad. [/quote]

No doubt that's part of it.  Though I didn't go to college aspiring to (or even considering) academia.  I was thinking JD, maybe MBA.  Got talked into applyimg to PhD programs (in addition to law schools) by one of my profs.  My spouse, who ended up a JD, had similar interactions (with different faculty) at our major research university.

I think your point about 95% of students never coming to office hours (or being particularly interested in getting to know profs) is key here.  Profs are accessible to undergrads, but you have to take them up on open invites and you'll have more/better interactions if what typically brings you to them is interest in/questions about the material (vs your grade).

Fwiw, I'm the early poster who said either way works.  Personally, I find (and have always found) research universities more intellectually exciting places than LACs.  And, at every stage, I've experienced the presence of talented, ambitious grad students as a real plus.  So I get annoyed when people try to steer intellectual kids away from research universities for their college educations.  I'd show kids both and let them choose what's appealing, without making  categorical claims about which provides the better education.

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