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[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]Is Kushner there to represent Israel or the US in these talks? [/quote]

Remember he also reps Saudi with that 3 billion retainer. The only thing for sure is he does not rep the US.

No clearance, no official title with the administration and is not employed by the US government. Iran has said they do not want to beal with him because he is an agent if Israel and he does not understand anything. [/quote]

I don't know if you guys just don't know enough or what, but Saudis do not actually benefit from any of this in the end. They're servile dogs w/ no real power. Just a checkbook and a traitorous, corrupt leader who literally has a pic w/ Epstein. The difference between Isr and SA, is that you will not find the Saudi civilian population to be bloodthirsty for any of this the way you will the israelis.[/quote]

It's called diplomacy and jockeying for long-term influence in the Middle East, PP. Of course the Saudis benefit from good relations with their neighbors, and the US, whom it sees as a superpower who is active in the region, due to oil, and due to its ties with Israel. If you see Superpower Number 1 being all pally with Israel, and you live in the same region, it behooves you to also be chummy with the US, to ensure that not every privilege flies to Israel and that there is a balance of power. The Saudis are past master in this and have been doing it to several Presidential administrations. Qatar and the UAE have more recently gotten in on it too. Jordan wields soft power due to its photogenic monarchy. They're all trying to play nice.

Iran is the pariah in the Middle East. Not Israel. Saudis want a marriage of convenience with the West and the Israelis. No one wants to be friends with Iran, because they're poor and incredibly rigid in their extremism. Israel has the bomb and the support of the West (however unearned!).

Interestingly, if Iran develops a nuclear weapon, all the Muslims countries will be a lot more circumspect with it :-)

It's all of a game of power, and what I find hilarious is that of all the nations involved, it's Iran who sticks to its values (horrific though they may be) through thick and thin. The rest couldn't care less about morals and principles. They follow the money and influence.

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Because Iran is poor??? lol

For what reason? And for how much longer?

Utter stupidity when its future-term allies are better positioned in the area than Israel or Saudi Arabia.

The GCC will have no choice but to ally with Iran or bend the knee in the future.

Iran produces scientists and mathematicians. Arabs produce what?[/quote]

The most productive period for science and math was during the height of Islamic power (sans western intervention). The Quran itself embraces science while Europe was burning pp at the stake for daring to challenge the concept of the earth being the center of the universe.

It's so weird when pur-jhee-yans do this thing where they pit Iranians against Arabs like the former is "western." You guys are so proud of being Iranians you go and get some of the worst nose jobs to look more "European."  No one is looking at someone who is Iranian and thinking you aren't the same as Arabs, so get over yourself.  It's why a Sikh was killed after 9/11. There are no distinctions made among non-white people. Are you trying to be like the Hindutva who think hating Muslims suddenly makes them acceptable to western chauvinists?

FYI, Gaza and the West Bank had a higher literacy rate than the US and Israel.  Now imagine what could've been accomplished had the f***ing israelis never darkened the doorstep of every Palestinian family.

You don't even know to make a distinction between the gulf states and the levant

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The point was about the Arabs and Persians now, not 100s or 1000s of years ago. Iranians are prolific producers of academics while the Arabs hang out in casinos. Yes, blame it on the proximity to Israel but that's the truth. Iran will turn into *the* regional power player in no time. Robert Pape has already asserted that they are now the 4th pole in the world alongside the US, Russia, and China.[/quote]

Al Jazeera alone is more well known household name than anything Iran or even Israel has produced. Arab academics are in higher number in Ivy League and other institutions. For some reason, people think Arabs as cartoon characters and as rich oil sheiks with harems of women partying their trust fund away.  There’s literally only a handful of ruling families like this. The rest are everyday people[/quote]

The Iranians have been sanctioned for 50 years.  You can't compare that with free nations with infinite oil wealth that have been so influential in America that having the name bin Laden allowed dozens to fly safely out of America on military planes or chartered flights immediately the 9/11 attacks. They were hardly questioned or suspected before leaving.

Contrast that with the targeting of a few Iranians being bandied about by ICE in a humiliating fashion and being shamed even for their wardrobe choices and place of domicile.

Meanwhile, the Arabs have done more to destroy Lebanon and the Palestinian State than Israel ever could. Norm Finkelstein has stated multiple times how the Arab League betrayed the Palestinians in order to get rich and save themselves.

Iran has had to triage resources and money. They don't need an Al Jazeera because Americans already know who they are. And to paraphrase W, and because of Trump, the whole world now knows who they are: [b]A major world power that will soon dwarf the entire GCC[/b].

The Arabs betrayed the Muslims. They allowed Gaza, the West Bank, and Beirut/southern Lebanon to be destroyed. They didn't defend Iran when the Iranians called for solidarity. Who do you think the Pakistanis and Indonesians will trust going forward?

We know who the Russians and Chinese will choose. And, unfortunately, the lack of ability to rein in Iran will probably now have another major geopolitical repercussion: DPRK now could possibly sidestep sanctions and get aid for weapons with Iran, perhaps ironically paid for in USD1.[/quote]

Lol, don't get high on your own supply.  Both Indonesia and Pakistan are more populated and, especially after 6 weeks of bombing, more industrialized.

Iran is an important middle country.  But it's on par with Nigeria, Phillipines, Vietnam, Canada, Spain, Turkey etc.  Not the US, China, or Germany.[/quote]

Except Iran now controls the Strait of Hormuz and have made American bases in the GCC countries unviable, including the HQ of the Navy's Fifth Fleet in Bahrain. They also have more than a 1000 lbs of enriched uranium. And an advanced missile program that remains standing. Not to mention their Shahed drones that can very cheaply and easily hit anything within 1500 miles. Basically, as a result of Trump and Netanyahu's ill-planned war, Iran has expelled US forces from the Persian Gulf and now control 20-30 percent of the world's oil, liquified natural gas, and fertilizer. The US and Israel have made Iran stronger than it's ever been. This ceasefire is a capitulation. Witkoff, Kushner, and Vance are effectively going to Pakistan to negotiate America's surrender. Iran may have been a middling power two months ago, but they have all the cards now.

By any measure, America's decision to follow Israel into this war of choice has been a disaster.   [/quote]
Yes. But the most important thing was omitted: Israel is and will remain a one-bomb country. Basically a pissant in a land of giants.[/quote]

Israel has had nuclear weapons since 1966. But so what? They are unusable except if you want the apocalypse. Russia has them too. And even though they have been in a grinding war with Ukraine for the past five years, which has cost Russia a staggering 1.3 million casualties, they still wont't use them. The US could nuke Iran to kingdom come tomorrow, but it won't. Japan, Germany, Poland, the Netherlands could all have nuclear weapons within six months. But they won't. Nuclear weapons aren't particularly useful in the real world in real world scenarios. MAD remains as true today as it did in 1950. Armageddon isn't in any countries plan.

But nukes do have some deterrence effect. Israel and the US would not have launched this dumbass war if Iran had nukes. Which is exactly why Iran will pursue nukes going forward. The two things they will never give up from here is the Strait of Hormuz and their nuclear program. The US and Israel made some really stupid decisions here.

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