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[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]You end with a great story.  It is very comforting and I can understand why you feel sorry for your in-laws who don't have it.

But you still fundamentally miss something.  You put theism and atheism on a par by saying everyone engages in "wishful thinking".  That's absolutely false, and I am saying this as a Christian.  Atheism, skepticism, scientists, etc. are all at their core skeptics.  They believe what the evidence says, and they do not believe the rest.

By trying to label everyone a "wishful thinker", you make it so easy to say "as long as I have to make a wish, I'll choose the wish that involves an infinite, loving creator and eternal life."  Well, that's just not fair to the other side.  Their skepticism causes them to face some serious consequences:  there may be no plan for them, they were not created for a purpose, if they are alone in this world then they are just flat out alone, and that when they die there is nothing.  [b]What kind of wishful thinker chooses that?[/b]

As Christians, we have faith.  We most often call faith a "gift".  It is beyond our control, and contrary to many posters it is not the product of reason and will, unless the will part is a choice to believe things without evidence, in which case we might as well drop the "reason" part.

I don't think it is proper to chastise or pity people who do not have it.  I think it is also good to test that faith with reason, and I think that this thread is helpful in that.  Because a weak faith is no faith at all.

But there is no point in wrapping this up with the conclusion that faith is beautiful.  Because to the skeptic who applies reason to all the evidence he can find, it is just a beautiful dream.[/quote]

This is the OP.  Thoughtful post.  You gave me a lot to think about.

As to your question, I can only speak for myself, for when I did not have faith.  I "wished" to be my own absolute authority.  I thought all the other consequences were worth the "freedom" to do as I pleased in this life.

Very recently, I recognized my "wish" in the Christian account of the Fall.  The first humans were so close to God, their reason and will participated in eternal law .  The temptation they faced was:  Do you trust that God's will is best for you?  Could you do better?  Is He holding you back from even greater happiness?  [i]Do you want to decide for yourselves what is right and what is wrong, what is good and what is evil?[/i]  Do you want to be the Absolute Authority, and answer only to yourself?  Do you want to be like God?

Pride.  Obedience.  Why humans turned away from their Creator at the beginning.  And why I turned away some years ago.  And why I still doubt sometimes.

That's where the will comes in.  Faith is a gift, but you need to be willing to receive it.  One day, I said, in my mind, "God, I don't know if you exist.  I think you might only be a story.  But I'm not certain.  If you do exist, and you are who you are supposed to be, I want the Truth.  If you are the Truth, please, I need your help."

That was my test of the "God hypothesis."  (But you can't demand miracles (which, even when they happen, are not "proof" of God) and you can't give a timetable.  That's demanding God to be your servant, when, if He is real, He is your King.)

And I'll be totally honest.  I did not get the answer I imagined.  My life was turned upside down.

If I were going to dream up my own God, He would be much more tame and lax than the Christian God.  ("After all, he's not a tame lion.")  But that's just me.

[/quote]

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