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[quote=Anonymous][quote=Muslima][quote=Anonymous][quote=jsteele][quote=Anonymous]
Lots of people are irritated by Muslima, not just me. I know you can verify this. Her victimhood mentality is irritating, the drumbeat about how CH is sonebody else's fault. Her rhetorical style is irritating, where she responds to important points only with insults and then obsesses about irrelevant side issues. Her misrepresentation is Islam is irritating. (On this thread I just noticed her claiming that you can't cite the Quran to talk about Islam, and I didn't have the energy to take on that BS by pointing out that Muslims, including her on the other threads, cite the Quran all.the.time. But boy, you should have seen her on those other threads. "Women are equal in Islam" and "Islam offers protection and sexual fulfillment to women captives.") Don't call it an "obsession", that's just an ad hominem. I and others are merely pointing out what we've noticed about how you always defend her, even when she's full of crap; you never question her crap even when it's blatant crap; and in fact you've frequently jumped in to challenge the posters who were questioning her crap. To the extent Muslima affects me at all, it's probably to cause a knee-jerk reaction to distrust her. Your own role in defending her crap probably causes me (and I venture to say, others here) to come down even harder on her. Laudable? Not exactly, I'll admit that. Understandable? Completely.

A little Saturday morning introspection. You're welcome. [/quote]

I don't defend Muslima that much and I suspect she would be pretty surprised that you think I defend her at all. I do often share a perspective similar to hers so I may appear to be arguing on the same side. There are very distinct and important differences between us. She is Muslim and I'm not. She is discussing her personal beliefs and her religion. I could as easily be discussing Formula 1 racing or the difference between Gibson and Fender guitars (if you want to see a true religious war, let's discuss that). When Muslima discusses Islam, unless she says otherwise, it is implied that she means Islam as she practices it or as she believes it. If she says "Women are equal in Islam", she is providing her understanding of Islam. What you should do is discuss other groups of Muslims who don't think women are equal in Islam. Because if Muslima says, "Woman are equal in Islam" and you say, "Women are not equal in Islam", I would say that both of you are wrong. Those statements are only true within the context of specific Muslims because there is no single "Islam". 
[/quote]

Fender guitars suck. Just for the record. My son is trading his in this weekend or next.

OK. This may not be the place, but since you wonder why some of us distrust Muslima so, I'll get into it briefly. Just one example.  [b]Muslima said "women are equal in Islam." No elaboration, no context, nothing more. As you suggest now, several of us started pointing out Muslim divorce laws, inheritance rights, marital property and custody rights, value of a woman's testimony in financial courts, and that these things are in the Quran to various extents and practiced to various extents in all countries with sharia law. Three pages later, Muslima says, "Oh, I didn't mean western linear ideas of equality, which involve equality of legal rights, instead I meant the Muslim idea of equality of responsibilities, and you all should have known that from the start.[/b]"  A minor issue is that it felt like dawwah, and several people pointed that out. The main issue is, it felt very deceptive, because I venture to guess that 95% of her readers had no clue about women's rights in Islam as opposed to the western idea of legal equality we all grew up with here. I'm also pretty sure that Muslima knew very well that 95% of her readers grew up with western ideas of legal equality and had no clue what she really meant about women being equal. So anyway, we did what you said, which is to point out these aspects of sharia law, but at the end of the day (and after many similar examples) many of us from those threads don't trust her and are more than used to challenging her. You're seeing that on this thread.[/quote]

That's a lie and the rest is also totally false but keep living in your twisted world[/quote]

Here you are again, insulting people instead of responding to the substantive points. You did offer an unqualified claim that "women are equal in Islam," didn't you. You did say, later, "oh, I didn't mean your western idea of legal equality, which I prefer to call 'linear' equality, I meant something else," didn't you. [/quote]

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