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[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]It is absolutely true that the eugenics movement was a liberal progressive movement (using today’s political terms), but there were plenty of conservatives who also actively promoted the movement. Although its roots were in the liberal progressives, and the thought leadership was in that group, it was enthusiastically embraced by conservatives. In other words, while it is true Sanger was a racist who specifically targeted Black women, she was hardly alone and had plenty of conservatives along with her.

In short, yes, we have a very ugly history of eugenics and yes, the abortion rights movement is part of that, but not just that movement.

I’m curious about the person who keeps saying that close to 100% of parents choose to terminate for genetic abnormalities in places like Iceland. Do you think that makes that termination morally and ethically [i]right[/i]? There has been a lot in human history that was done universally that we now recognize as abhorrent. Personally I do not think it is a good thing for us as a society to eliminate all children with genetic abnormalities routinely. [/quote]

I'm not concerned with other people's morals and ethics.

I have a dear friend with a severely disabled child whose disorder is rare enough to not be diagnosed in utero with routinely offered tests.  The child will never develop cognitively, eat without a tube, talk, or walk unassisted.  My friend, who is lucky enough to be UMC and highly educated, went to hell and back coping with this, and arranging the necessary medical and childcare support for the child. The family's financial position has been altered forever.  The mother now also has significant depression due to this.

She is 100% clear that had she known ahead of time, she'd 100% terminate.  And in fact when she had gathered enough courage to have another child, she had the pregnancy checked up and down, and was again 100% clear that in case of any issues, she'd terminate without a second thought.

So, the feelings of someone who is actually living through this situation is good enough for me. It would be the height of arrogance for anyone to tell her, well, that's how your cookie crumbled, live with it! No termination for you! [/quote]

It is interesting here that you do not once mention or appear to care about whether the disabled child values her own life. Your perspective is only that of the adult. [/quote]
DP. I have a special needs child who routinely expresses that life isn’t enjoyable when you aren’t like anyone else, you can’t do what most other people can, and you feel inferior. We’ve done all the things: child sees a psychiatrist and a therapist and is medicated for depression. I do everything I can to boost child’s self esteem, but child is adamant that the world would be better off if there was a way to prevent special needs people from being born. It breaks my heart because dc’s life is actually pretty good and I don’t share their outlook — but I’m not living with the same challenges dc is.

People should only make decisions for themselves because, obviously, we are not all on the same page. We don’t all have the same spiritual beliefs, ethical concerns, life experience, world view, security, resources, support, resilience and perseverance. I trust women to make the right choices for themselves and their offspring.[/quote]

Your last line is just such a cop out. We say these things but it’s not true. That’s like saying child abusers can’t exist unless they are men. Women to can make poor and yes unethical choices “for themselves and their offspring”.[/quote]
So you’re in favor of female child abusers having children they don’t want?

I’m not saying women never make bad choices or harm other people; I’m just saying that they’re far better at judging their own capabilities than legislators are.[/quote]

What kind of crazy logical leap is that?! No! But I’m not going to put out platitudes like “I trust all women with offspring” which is patent nonsense.[/quote]
That’s not a platitude. Who do you think is in the best position to judge whether an individual woman can handle pregnancy, childbirth, parenting, special needs? You think (mostly male) state legislators are the ones who should have the decision making authority over women’s bodies and family planning?[/quote]

Haha.   These boys couldn't handle pregnancy, and childbirth.  They are so clueless.[/quote]

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