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[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]Whether or not man is strictly material or both material and immaterial defines the meaning of his existence.  If he is only material, his end point is death.  If he is material and immaterial, his end point is not the death of his material self.  If he is only material, he has no intrinsic and inalienable worth.  If anything, he is worth more the more useful he is to other creatures undergoing similar physical processes, but he has no value unto himself.

So if any DCUMers believe in human rights, there is every reason to care whether or not there is a Creator, and whether or not man is solely a material being.[/quote]

A person does not cease to matter because they die. That's ridiculous. [b]Lincoln is dead, did he not make an important impact on human rights?[/b] What about everyone else? Even if it is not someone famous, a person matters to someone. My existence is not meaningless because I'm mortal. I don't need god to think I'm special to make my life important. [/quote]

Well, it depends on who you talk to.  Members of the KKK would strongly disagree with Lincoln's personal opinion about human rights.  How do you know who is right?

Some people matter to no one.  Do they still have human rights?

This is an either/or problem.  Either human beings have intrinsic worth, or they do not.  If they do not, we may choose to grant them worth, but then their worth may be taken away by someone else.

[/quote]

I think you're running into the wishful "thinking problem" again.  "Do people have human rights?  If so, God." That's not an argument.

[/quote]

I am not trying to make an argument.  I am simply observing that human beings do not have intrinsic value in a materialist universe.[/quote]

Nor do they have one in a universe where we assume the God hypothesis is correct.[/quote]

How so?[/quote]

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