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[quote=Anonymous][quote]You are skewing statistics and projecting racism.

First of all, it's true that 40% of all births are out-of-wedlock, but the average is brought up by the very high rate among blacks - at close to 75%. Looking at just whites, it's 29%.

Second, where did I ever say that higher out-of-birthrate assumes lesser values and intelligence?? I said that a higher out-of-birthrate is correlated strongly with poverty, higher crime, and poorer educational attainment (both for the single mother and the children.) I never even mentioned intelligence as a factor. I did say that a high out-of-birthrate is indicative of lesser value being placed on mothers and fathers being married, which is just common sense.

And as far as what an employer thinks - that an applicant came from a fatherless household and/or was given a pass on grades - that is why [b]blacks should work to reign in the shameful out-of-wedlock rate (it is a shame!) and support removing race from affirmative action[/b] (which based on the survey, more do). [/quote]

PP here.  I haven't skewed anything.  Forty percent of births to unwed mothers in the US is fact.  The cause of that is up for debate and your argument seems to be that the root cause is values.  From there, you'd have to agree that the value of a family with married parents has gone down overall.  Right?  Are we still on the same page here?

I would posit that there are lot of factors that bring down the value of marriage.  Chief among them is the mental, emotional and financial preparation to enter into a long term contract.  Fewer people - of all races - have that these days.  When you have fewer resources - time and money, to be sure, but a whole lot of other socioeconomic supports that can't really be measured, like social capital - short term objectives like paying bills overwhelm one's ability to think long term.  And if you've been married for a while, as I have, you know that long term thinking is prerequisite for long term marriage.

Long term thinking is not something you're born with.  It's learned, and the learning requires proof of efficacy (i.e. real life examples) and it requires practice.  I include myself among those who would say higher education provides practice.  And you have a greater chance at success when there are examples all around you.  Without acquiring the skill of long term thinking, mere survival compels your brain to think and act on short term objectives.  So yes, I believe more kids, regardless of race or whether or not they have two married parents, should be getting access to higher education.  Our economy, our culture, and our long term survival all need long term thinkers.

If our culture valued education, there'd be greater emphasis on long term thinking in general and we'd include robust vocational training in our knowledge capital investments.  We [i]don't [/i]value education.  We sure as hell don't value merit.  We'd very much like to keep the caste system we've got, and preserve the right to heap criticism on anyone with the temerity to break out of it.  It's proven that poor white kids who get into elite schools also struggle. &lt;&lt;--If you want to eliminate race-based affirmative action, start paying attention to things like this.

And as I keep saying, you just can't do away with race-based affirmative action by making a race-based argument against it.  Read your final paragraph above, maybe scratch your head a little bit, and see if you can figure out what I mean.  Maybe your long term thinking can free itself of long-held race-based beliefs.

But I kinda doubt it.  Which is why race-based affirmative action will go on.  It's value is questionable, but there's no question we still need it.[/quote]

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