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[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]
How can I be pretending it isn't so when I'm telling you point blank that a disbeliever may not be a guardian over a believer and that makes perfect sense to most Muslims. However, you neglected to explain that conversion does not result in automatic divorce. Couples are given time to see if the disbeliever will convert.

Lets assume Zainab was NOT Muhammad's daughter. She was, but lets grant you that. Even if Zainab were not the Prophet's daughter, she was a believer whose marriage to a disbeliever was not automatically terminated. And this shows that some leniency is afforded by way of time. [/quote]
Actually, it was me who said it first, many pages ago. But also point blank.   I didn't say it's terminated immediately, just that it IS terminated if the husband doesn't convert. It seems, for once, that you agree.  I am sure that it makes perfect sense to Muslims.  As I've heard more than once, "Muslims are wife takers, not wife givers."

You may find marriage without marital relations to be just like a real marriage.  Lots and lots of people would disagree with you. [/quote]

Its similar to a separation. And sometimes after a separation, couples make up. The point is, its not oppressive for women now and it wasn't then. Women were not compelled to convert. They chose to do so and, in many cases, left their disbelieving husbands. These women made the trip from Mecca to Medina. I'm not sure if you have ever made such a journey, but I have. By car and also by bus. It is a very difficult journey even by car or bus. There is a vast stretch of desert and the heat of the sun is unmerciful. Yet many women made the trip to take the oath and left their husbands.[/quote]
Why does that matter? I'm not sure if you've ever landed a double flip on ice.  I have - in my dreams.  It's a very difficult jump, and it's very painful to fall on the hard ice without protection.  Yet many skaters make the jump and leave the safety of land behind. People do all sorts of things for no other reason that they want it.

The point is that it is disingenuous to pretend that the wife's conversion doesn't terminate the marriage. It does, for all practical purposes. The question of whether it was oppressive on women was never a part of this discussion; I'm sure the ladies knew what they were doing.

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And just as ice skaters attempt that jump despite risks for the joy of skating well, so too do Muslim women convert and leave their disbeliever husbands for the joy of being a devout Muslima. This is Islam. Most Muslims adhere to this with complete understanding. Nobody is being disinegenuous. You threw out some erroneous "facts," or unsubstantiated facts, or incomplete facts. If you are going to say Islam requires converts to end their marriages to disbelievers, then why not also explain that it will permit separation for even long periods of time to allow couples to work through it?  It shows some leniency and compassion in what you wish to present as a harsh rule. Well, its only harsh to you but you don't need to get worked up over it since it doesn't affect you.

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