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[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]Maybe let this thread die, and start over if you want to have a substantive conversation.  Too much bad blood here, on both sides.

- Syd (Hillary supporter)[/quote]

If there was a way to express an opinion on dcum without starting an argument that eventually results in being insulted, then I might take your advice. But the fact is, my own opinion is that Hillary Clinton is not a feminist and Bernie Sanders is a much better feminist. That statement alone pissed people off but I explained  my reasons and posted a good article on the subject.  Make of it what you will.[/quote]

But see, you had to lift up your candidate by dissing the other candidate.

You could've said, "I think Bernie is a great feminist because..."[/quote]

I could but that would not express my point which is that I believe that Sanders is the real feminist in the race. I thought I was being pretty polite about it compared to my 76 year-old feminist friend who posted on FB this morning that Clinton "makes a mockery of feminism."  I didn't want to make a statement like that because I think Clinton is okay on [i]some [/i]women's issues and she is certainly better than the Republican alternatives but it is hard for me to see how any feminist (woman or man) can support her over Sanders unless it is all about her gender and not about equality, social justice, and human rights. [/quote]

Well, then you fail to see some really obvious things.  I have pretty great feminist bona fides, and definitely think she's the better feminist.  Not just because of gender. [/quote]

What are the obvious things?[/quote]

Long list and I'm watching kids play, but consistently beig ahead of the curve on pioneering women's equal treatment in the workplace, advocating for things like human rights for women internationally, actually working hard for reproductive rights and equal pay, neither of which Bernie ever did much on other than be another reliable vote.  She actually worked on it.  Advocated. Fundraised. Spent political capital.  She did much more (I know, I work on those issues).  [/quote]

I don't know... For me, between her championing of welfare reform which had dire effects on poor women and children; and her willingness to receive money for her family foundation from countries which severely oppress women such as: Saudi Arabia, Algeria, Kuwait and the United Arab Emirates,  Clinton does not appear to be a great champion of women's rights. I was just reading this article about her time spent as Secretary of State and all of her missed opportunities to help women around the world. This does not look like a great record on women's issues to me. Sanders has a very solid voting record and, once again, I can't point to one moment in his entire career when he missed an opportunity to advocate for women. Granted he did not have the world opportunities of a Secretary of State.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/right-turn/wp/2013/04/08/what-did-hillary-clinton-really-do-for-oppressed-women/[/quote]

She did not champion the welfare reform at all:

Enactment of welfare reform was a major goal of her husband's, but when the first two bills on it came from the Republican-controlled Congress lacked protections for people going off welfare, she urged him to veto them, which he did.[162][163] A third version came up during his 1996 general election campaign that restored some of the protections but cut the scope of benefits in other areas; critics, including her past mentor Edelman, urged her to get the president to veto it again.[162] But she decided to support the bill, which became the Welfare Reform Act of 1996, as the best political compromise available.[162][163] This caused a rift with Edelman that Clinton later called "sad and painful".[163]

And this is more of what she did for women:

In a September 1995 speech before the Fourth World Conference on Women in Beijing, Clinton argued very forcefully against practices that abused women around the world and in the People's Republic of China itself,[176] declaring that "it is no longer acceptable to discuss women's rights as separate from human rights".[176] Delegates from over 180 countries heard her say: "If there is one message that echoes forth from this conference, let it be that human rights are women's rights and women's rights are human rights, once and for all."[177] In doing so, she resisted both internal administration and Chinese pressure to soften her remarks.[170][177] The speech became a key moment in the empowerment of women and years later females around the world would recite Clinton's key phrases.[178] She was one of the most prominent international figures during the late 1990s to speak out against the treatment of Afghan women by the Taliban.[179][180] She helped create Vital Voices, an international initiative sponsored by the United States to promote the participation of women in the political processes of their countries.[181] It and Clinton's own visits encouraged women to make themselves heard in the Northern Ireland peace process.[182]

Hardly something to sneeze at, as far as feminism goes.

[/quote]

I don't know where you are getting your "facts" about welfare reform but HRC fervently campaigned for her husband's welfare reform policy and even referred to it as "a success" as late as 2008. You don't get to change the facts just because you don't like them.

She did give a nice speech in Beijing but that was 20 years ago and all I can see are her missed opportunities since then. She speaks out of both sides of her mouth. If she can speak out against the mistreatment of women by the Taliban, why won't she speak out against the mistreatment of women by U.S. supported regimes as well? She is an advocate for women and children when it suits her just like everything else she does. She speaks out of both sides of her mouth.[/quote]

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