Reply to I consider Crimea, and really the Ukraine, as part of Russia

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[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]How is this even a question?  They declared independence with a 90% yes vote, including 56% of crimea.  They are not part of Russia because they formally declared it so.[/quote]

what does this even mean?   If the South voted to secede, do we care?[/quote]

We certainly cared at one point.[/quote]

The analogy is flawed.  The south was never a separate nation.  Ukraine was a distinct nationality from the mid 1700s.  [/quote]

No.  Part of the Russian Empire, controlled by the Czar unil 1917, part of the USSR, controlled by Moscow, until 1990something.l[/quote]

You do not seem to understand the difference between a nation and a state.[/quote]

Point is, maybe 20 of the last 700 years has the Ukraine been able to make any decisions separate from Russia[/quote]

That does not mean that they have no national identity.  They do.  And their lack of success at obtaining independence does not diminish it.  This is distinct from the American South.  Thus, the analogy does not work.[/quote]

its a flawed analogy, but the Ukraine has only been independent for a brief instance.  They are undeniably within the Russian sphere of influence.  I think we need to defer to Russia here.  Now we are much more powerful and more rich than Russia, and Russia is trending downwards, but you need to pick your battles.[/quote]

Ukraine and Crimea have had their own distinct cultures and languages going back many hundreds of years.  The Russian influence only goes back less than 100 years and was strictly an act of overt colonialism, in an era when the rest of the world was trying to reverse colonialism.  The only reason there are areas in Ukraine and Crimea that have any Russian language, identity or sympathies at all is because Russians were shipped there by Soviet era regimes, most of them have no roots there, in fact many of them were not even born there.  The entire Russian presence there is completely artificial.[/quote]
 :roll: 
As if the Ukrainian presence in Crimea is not artificial.[/quote]

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