Reply to Top 10 Universities - Holistic Admissions Fact or Fiction

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[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]
But everyone does.  I taught labs and graded tests at a very selective university during graduate school.  I was a very strong supporter of affirmative action before that experience.  The bottom 5-6 students in the classes I graded were [b]always[/b] African-american students, and often their grades were WAY below the grades of other students in the class.  These kids simply didn't belong at the school, and their performance was radically worse than other students. Of course, they still got Cs and the (very) occasional D. Nobody really flunks out of prestigious universities, and the majority of these kids were passed through and got a degree which I honestly question if they actually deserved.  Once you experience this disparity it's hard to look at affirmative action as a positive thing.[/quote]

There's a big difference between the 400-point SAT gap in the Texas study somebody posted above, and the 100- or 150-point gap that PPs have pointed out for Harvard. A 400-point gap probably speaks to  a meaningful difference in abilities. The Harvard difference between 2100 and 2250 is not going to affect academic performance quite so drastically. Also, 2100 is probably high enough to ensure competency at pretty much any college in the country.[/quote]

PS. Should add that the thread is about "Top 10 Universities."  So we're *not* talking about students with SATs of 1500 and who are 400 points below the university average SATs. Instead, at the Top 10, we're talking about maybe a 100-150 point gap and SAT scores that are highly respectable 2100s.  The latter kids are perfectly capable of doing the work at any university in the country.[/quote]

I think you're giving way more credit to the self reported scores from an email survey from Harvard then it deserves.  Most studies show about a 300 point boost on a 1600 point scale when all other things are equal.

The journal of blacks in higher education did an analysis of SAT scores (Google jbhe.com sat scores) which detailed that about 1200 AA students get over 1400 on the SAT and ~250 get over 1500 each year. To have a SAT score average of 1400 for AA students at Harvard they would need to get a large percentage of these students, which is obviously not happening.  Or if it is happening, what does this mean for the other 10-15 schools with similar SAT ranges?[/quote]

"Most" studies look at a broad range of universities, not just at Harvard. The data from Harvard that was linked to earlier shows a much smaller range.

Also, source? I actually went to that Journal and couldn't find such an article. I did find a number or articles arguing that SES and educational disparities, not race per se, are responsible for the SAT score gap.

I was under the impression that this thread, per the header, is a discussion of holistic admissions at the top 10. Not a discussion of affirmative action at every school across the country, on average. If you want to talk about affirmative action, which is different from holistic admissions, why don't you start your own thread. Then we can contain the racism there.[/quote]

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