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[quote=Anonymous]
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My point is that you said you never met a Muslim woman who needed her husband's permission to get a job, and I told you where you can find them.  The fact you never met someone is not proof they don't exist.
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And again, your point is?  :roll:  There are American Jewish, Christian, Atheist women who ask for their husband's permission to get a job, to buy a watch, to buy food, so what does that tell you? I will repeat it once again, KSA is not the epitome of Islam, and you using that to prove a point that muslim women need permission to work is a weak argument because guess what, there are other Hundreds of MILLIONS of Muslim women who do not need their husband's permission to go to work and they are not the NORM not the exception

[quote]You didn't respond to that - you keep interchanging dividing assets with alimony, I guess in hopes of confusing people? In that case, let me do what IRS does - make up little stories.

John and Janice decide to marry. They also decide that Janice will stay home to take care of the home and raise their children, while John will be a breadwinner. John does well in his job and twenty years later they have a nice house in McLean, an apartment in downtown Washington, and $900,000 in pension funds.  The next day, John decides he no longer wants to be married.

What happens to Janice? She gets a broken heart, half the house, half the apartment and half the pension.

A street over on the same day, Yusef and Asmaa decide to marry.  They agree Asmaa will stay home to take care of the home and raise their children, while Yusef will be a breadwinner. Yusef does well in his job, and twenty years later they have a nice house in McLean, an apartment in downtown Washington, and $900,000 in pension funds. The next day, Yusef decides he no longer wants to be married.

What happens to Asmaa? She gets a broken heart, she gets to live in Yusef's house for three more months, and then she has to leave. Yusef keeps the house, the apartment, and the pension.  And there's a lady on DCUM who says that's exactly how it should be.  And no, she doesn't get to stay there for three more months to figure out what to do next.  She gets to stay there for three more months so that Yusef can decide if he *really* wants to divorce her.  Asmaa's feelings? They aren't really a part of this conversation.
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Again, tjhis probably happens in the life you created in your head, in real life again how many people in the US make over $900k?  :roll:  You can't make sense with nonsense. The example you've cited only applies if and only if in a Non-muslim society the husband is filthy rich and the wife super poor and for some reason she gets a lot of money after the divorce. How many times does this happen in real life? one in a blue moon. As part of my divorce i went to a family workshop mandated by the laws of the state I live in, you know what was happening at the workshop? A bunch of women crying about how their husbands left them with nothing and how they had to sign papers from the husband's lawyer to give them a certain amount of money for a certain amount of time  and they agreed because they had no choice, or they didnt wanna deal with it, or the husband is just a loser and has zero money. Yeh, that's divorce in the US for ya and then these women go and file child support and spend the next 18 years researching the dead beat dads, following them, filing one child support order after another to get some sort of "help" from their ex-husband/ex-boyfriend. Uhm, okay I guess you have not spent a day in a family court in the US to see what really goes on! Muslim women don't have to fight for child support, the father is Obligated to support the children irregardless of how much the mother makes! But yeh continue living in Utopia!

[quote]Again, refer to my previous post about this- Yes, the woman is required to return the dowry if she wants a divorce and the husband refuses the divorce, he is entitled to get the dowry back if he ASKS for it. Which in practical terms again never happens, I did not return my dowry and was never asked to and  I initiated my divorce  :lol: [/quote]
There you are with the "never" thing again, I guess you have knowledge of every thing that ever passed on the face of the Earth? Oh, and of course you didn't get alimony. Duh. It's not your choice.  Alimony - the whole supergenerous 3 months of it - is not due to women who initiate divorces.  It's touching your husband didn't ask for his dowry back, but what individual Muslims do is not the point, what shariah dictates is the point, and shariah says if he wants his dowry back, he can have it, and he also doesn't have to agree to release you - his consent is required if you want to divorce him, but he doesn't need your consent to divorce you.

And dial it down with the exclamation marks, your passion is not an argument.
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Uhm, it is my choice not to get alimony, my divorce was pronounced in the US by an american court, I could have asked for alimony IF i wanted to, get the facts straight! No, his consent is not needed if you want the divorce, that is the whole point of giving your dowry back  :roll: And as in my previous post, i told you I did not believe in Alimony, so I don't understand why you went rambling paragraph after paragraph about alimony, again I don't consider not having  alimony a loss as I have no interest in it and don't believe in the alimony system that ends up creating lazy women/men  who sit on their behind all day depending on their ex-spouses for no other reason that he/she married them years ago, it is a complete scam in my eyes. And it tears families down more than build them up as had you spent a day of your life in family court, you'd see women and men who spend years not moving on with their lives but pursuing their ex spouses, one suit after another just for money,... uhm okay this is the perfect life we should all abide to  :roll: So you can't sell it to me ,  maybe had you actually read what I wrote you would have understood my stance on the topic.  Nothing you have said makes any sense and unfortunately your ignorance is simultaneously common, sickening, and sad and I do not have the time to educate you ! You're not the first and won't be the last I meet with the same diatribe, so good luck :XD: 
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