Reply to EPA Head Zeldin on "Ruthless" podcast

Forum Index » Political Discussion

Reply to "EPA Head Zeldin on "Ruthless" podcast"

Subject:

Emoticons





More smilies

Text Color: Font: Close Marks

[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]
This is all cultish thinking on their part, with no real basis in reality.  Yet it persists strongly.   I love that someone brought up CFCs and the hole in the ozone layer.  It destroys a lot of the narrative, whether religious, or skeptical alike.  The skeptics say things like "man can't possibly be having that much of an effect on the atmosphere because it's so vast" - yet CFCs created a dangerous hole in the ozone layer, proving man can indeed have a significant effect.  But then there's the pivot to, "even if climate change is real, we can't really do anything about it / why should we if China isn't / oh but why bother with vehicle emissions if we aren't also doing x, y, z" which also picks up the apocalyptic religious MAGAs waiting for the "End Times" - the fact that the world was able to come together and solve the CFC issue to mend the hole in the ozone layer SHOWS that we can potentially still fix it.  And, the arguments work both ways - because Trump backing out of the Paris climate accord gave China a way out.  Returning to the table puts China back on the hook.  Meanwhile the MAGAs also ignore the fact that China HAS NOT given up, and in fact is putting in more renewable power via solar, wind, and advanced technologies like thorium reactors than the rest of the world combined.[/quote]

Montreal protocol gave exceptions to China, India, and other developing countries.  In fact, China and India took advantage of this exception to produce CFCs and then burn them to collect carbon credits from Europe.

China may be increasing renewables, but they are also increasing coal, when the goal is a 90% cut globally.  Instead China and India are about 40% of emissions, and other countries outside of Europe and US are 30%.  [/quote]

Bogus talking points.  The Montreal Protocol is still a success and net win.  Yes, some developing countries like China and India received exemptions, but they were time-limited phasedown exceptions.  And despite those early loopholes the Montreal Protocol still led to a 98.6% global phaseout of ozone-depleting substances.

Likewise, despite exemptions India cut its greenhouse gas output by 465 million tons of CO2 equivalent.

You'll have to post a credible citation proving that China and India "burned CFCs for carbon credits" - if there were any instances of that they were rare and/or unverified.

And yes, China and India are still burning coal, but that is not their longterm plan, it's to meet short-term need and they are still targeting carbon phaseout.  It's no excuse whatsoever to fold arms, huff and throw in the towel.  That's absolutely stupid, it's like quitting a marathon because the first mile was uphill.  Bottom line is that even while the treaties aren't flawless, they have still delivered significant wins.   [/quote]People are saying because Montreal was a win, so too with CO2.  I am pointing out that under Montreal, China and India were exempted, therefore you can't use that as proof.
India has increased its CO2 emissions considerable, and is now higher than the entire EU.[/quote]

China and India got a temporary, phased CFC exemption that expired under Montreal.  That is what was also proposed for carbon.  NOT a permanent exemption.  It worked for Montreal, it can also work for GHGs.[/quote]

Options

	Disable HTML in this message
	Disable BB Code in this message
	Disable smilies in this message

Review message

Search Recent Topics Hottest Topics