Reply to What does your religion or faith give you…

Forum Index » Religion

Reply to "What does your religion or faith give you…"

Subject:

Emoticons





More smilies

Text Color: Font: Close Marks

[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]OP, thank you all for the responses so far. It's interesting to me that they're so varied.

FYI, I will identify myself as OP in my posts, as I don't want anyone to think I'm challenging their answers. I really do ask in a spirit of openness and curiosity to whatever you have to offer. I think it feels like true faith has always been a huge thing that has been happening nearby -- I can almost reach out and touch it -- but [b]it's on the other side of a curtain[/b] or something, so it's still opaque.

Thank you for sharing your experiences.  [/quote]

In 1 Corinthians 13, St. Paul says that "now we see through a glass darkly [or "in a mirror dimly"] but then [after death] we shall see face to face."  So you are in good company when you experience faith in this way. Christian theologians often describe Christian faith as a reasonable faith. That is, it is not faith that requires you to suspend reason. Instead, it is faith that is consistent with reason. But it is nevertheless faith because we know things only in part--the remainder is withheld from our direct observation and knowledge. And for those things we have faith. Faith itself is a gift of God, not of oneself (Ephesians 2:8-9). With St. Thomas we can say "I believe, help my unbelief!"

As to whether it is important that our faith is in something true: yes, it is absolutely essential, the sina qua non. St. Paul says in 1 Corinthians 15 that if the resurrection of the body is a false promise then we are "above all men to be most pitied" and our faith is in vain.[/quote]

[b]Christian[/b] theologians describe the christian faith as a [u]reasonable[/u] faith...  :roll:   That's equivalent to Commanders fans saying they are the best team in the NFL.

There is nothing reasonable about the holy trinity, virgin birth, converting water into wine, miraculously healing lepers, etc. [/quote]

You are missing the point of miracles. Miracles are a sign to attract reasonable people. The only reasonable explanation for miracles is divine power that can alter what we see as the ordinary course of events. The fact that charlatans and fake miracles exist does not bear on whether true miracles have occurred. In fact, it is more indicative that they have occurred and are rare. For example, counterfeit currency actually indicates that real currency exists.[/quote]

What kind of logic is this?  Please explain how all the miracles that have been disproved are indicative that others actually have?  That is the OPPOSITE of the logical conclusion.

Counterfeit currency in NO WAY indicates that real currency exists.  "Counterfeit" means copy of a real thing, so it can't be counterfeit until there is a known real thing.  If I give you currency from the country of lower slobovia, or a six-dollar bill with Warren Harding's picture on it, [b]does that indicate real ones of those exist[/b]?

[/quote]

It would certainly indicate that real [i]currency[/i] exists.
Your whole line of argument relies on the presupposition that there is no such thing as a miracle. I held that same position for years, but it crumbles in the face of any serious inquiry. One can start with the very existence of the universe: why should there be anything at all, how can we go from nothing to something, what about a first cause, etc.?[/quote]

Seriously you can't be serious. Serious inquiry indicates that miracles are not real. There are things that happen that may have low statistical odds, but can happen nevertheless. That does not make it evidence of a miracle.

Secondly, explain how the trinity is reasonable? What about virgin birth?

Your question about the existence of the universe is a universal question, but your christian beliefs are not the answer. Science may not have a definitive answer, nor is there ever likely going to be one, but there are lots of ideas being discussed. And, as we gain more insight into quantum mechanics as we develop larger particle accelerators, we are slowly cracking open new insights into the nature of the universe. Knowledge builds on knowledge. Miracles? Not so much. [/quote]

Options

	Disable HTML in this message
	Disable BB Code in this message
	Disable smilies in this message

Review message

Search Recent Topics Hottest Topics