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[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]Have you toured the top 20 schools in the last 2 years and actually noticed the students at these schools? Have you seen the kids on the tours with you? The demographic of top 20 schools has changed drastically. The kids attending skew nerdy and awkward. If you are more of a “smart, social kid that likes to party” type, the Ivy and Ivy+ are not that appealing — especially if you are already a part of the 1%. The top 20s used to be filled with kids like this, but those days are gone. [/quote]

this ^ 100% - I advise kids and invariably it is the parents and hard core nerds looking for ivies.  The cool, relaxed, athletic, social - and most of all, smart - kids want the Dukes, Vandies, SMU, UCLAs of the world. The tide shifted post covid and is only accelerating.  Often a big disconnect between the striving parent (just saw this term on another post - luv it) who is ivy or bust, and what the kid wants.  And where the kid doesn’t get a say, it’s almost as if they are robots saying “yes, I want ivy”[/quote]

Duke is not laid back social partiers who are somewhat smart anymore. It is not the 80s and 90s. I went there c/o 91. Duke now is nerds and more nerds, maybe more social than some ivies but not by much. Most of my classmates would not get in now. Most of their kids do not: it is the nerdy ones, kids of nerds like me, who do. 85-90% of legacies are denied. We have one there and her brother is a senior at at a top ivy, and we have relatives at another ivy. The ivies and ivy+ are all of that same mold--they have 75% of students who are 99th percentile testers AND were also at or near the top of their high school. They are highly driven students with interviews/cuts to get into all the top clubs, loads of premeds and prelaw or finance bro types chasing wall street, with some niche-subject phD strivers thrown in. They all have research or internships during the semester, and are all in on club leadership. They drink far less at Duke than back in the 90s, yet the majority still does some drinking, but on average not every weekend once the semester ramps up. In that sense it is almost exactly the same as the ivy. Greek is not on campus, has not been for years, and less than half the student body participates in rush. The big difference is more sports-obsession with Duke Basketball--the nerd-centric students have even turned that into testing to tent which they study for weeks, for fun. Ivies do not have sports obsession.
The students from kids' prep school who went to UCLA/USC and SMU were a different mold and not nerdy, but also not 99th%ile top of the class/smartest kids, more like average (or below for SMU--kids in the bottom math levels and don't get into the stem APs). [/quote]

Duke still has a lot more hot girls than the ivies

I live in a major east coast city — not dc — and the Duke alumna at run club are way hotter than the other t20 — but especially hypsm alumna. [/quote]

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