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[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=jsteele][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=jsteele][quote=Anonymous]Just to play devil's advocate for a moment...

If self-professed Zionists say they believe in a, but anti-Zionists say Zionists don't believe in a but instead believe in b, why would we take the word of anti-Zionists over that of Zionists?[/quote]

That can go both ways. Zionists are very quick to explain what critics of Israel "really mean". When protesters say,[b] "From the River to the Sea"[/b], who should be the authoritative source for what they mean? The folks saying it or the ADL?  What is more important, how something is meant or how it is interpreted?

But, by all means, self-professed Zionists should explain exactly what they believe. I for one will take them at their word. But what they believe may well differ from what other Zionists believe.

[/quote]

Alternate explanation for bolded phrase please?[/quote]

Crickets....  what's the alternate explanation for "from the river to the sea" please?[/quote]

It was answered here:

http://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/15/1208658.page#27623410

I agree with that post. "From the River to the Sea, Palestine will be free" speaks to freedom, not control. In contrast, the Likud charter says that "between the Sea and the Jordan there will only be Israeli sovereignty". Netanyahu recently reiterated this statement. Whereas Palestinians want "freedom", Netanyahu and his ruling party want "sovereignty". The Palestinian slogan doesn't describe the auspices under which they will have freedom, but just the desire for freedom. 
[/quote]

What is Hamas’ charter re: Jews?[/quote]

Jeff, got to disagree here.  “From the River to the sea” boils down to a lot more about freedom. It boils down to geography.  They want all the land back.  They want Palestine to replace Israel and thereby be “free.”  But what does Hamas mean by “free”? It’s an oppressive terrorist state, no democracy, no civil rights.  We all sympathize with the suffering of the innocent Palestinians.  But instead of playing around with words, can we acknowledge what is really intended here?

Netanyahu wanting “sovereignty” speaks to wanting an Israeli state.  Nothing particularly oppressive or surprising about they coming from an Israeli politician.

Finally, any lack of equality for non-Jews in Israel is rooted in the need to keep it as a Jewish majority state. It’s not discriminatory out of hate for others or lack of tolerance.  Tel Aviv has the largest and most celebrated LGBTQ population in all the Middle East, while homosexuality isn’t tolerated by Hamas.  Are we really implying that Israel is less tolerant than Hamas? [/quote]

I see.  So you see nothing oppressive about a politician wanting to subsume additional territory into their state, a territory where millions of non-Jews currently live, without any plans to integrate them as citizens.  Okay.

I'll say that for Putin.  At least he is handing out Russian passports like candy in the newly occupied Ukrainian lands. [/quote]

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