Reply to Most over-ranked/under-ranked LACS on USNWR?

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[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]Reed is the most underrated (and intentionally so).[/quote]

Sigh....Why is Reed 80,000 a year with no merit aid? Super sad to take it off the list. [/quote]

Merit aid is not based on the price of tuition. Merit aid offered by colleges is used to game the rankings. Reed is wholly uninterested in giving money to wealthy, high stats kids to up its rankings on USNews. Also, many, many highly regarded colleges and universities are now charging around $80K for tuition, room, and board--regardless of whether they offer merit aid or not.[/quote]

That is an unfair assessment of merit aid.  All colleges want to attract the best students they can (and climb the rankings).  Need blind financial aid is also a tool to attract students who might otherwise feel disadvantaged in the application process.  Does merit aid really target the wealthy?  All things being equal, a wealthy kid would go to the most prestigious school he gets into, not the one that is providing the largest discount.  Merit aid therefore really targets the middle class or upper middle class kid who qualifies for little or no financial aid.  In the context of LACs, a family that is borderline for need based aid would probably hesitate to shell out 80k a year (versus much cheaper in state alternatives, for example) and would be wise to do so.  So if such a kid wants the LAC experience, merit aid may be the only possibility. Should this kid be denied that opportunity?  Only lower middle class and wealthy kids should have access to it?

Your attitude is very snotty.  Schools that provide merit aid are doing a tremendous service to families in the middle and appropriately rewarding some of our country's best, hardest working kids.[/quote]

DP. You're talking about how you'd like the world to work to benefit you. Ideally merit aid should be unrelated to need, meaning it's given to any applicant the school wants to attract.  That includes many wealthy applicants, and yes some some schools specifically target wealthy families, why wouldn't they?  Coupons often encourage people to spend more, they often are handed out selectively, this isn't unique to colleges.[/quote]

Not really.  My DC is headed off to a school that provides merit aid but we will not be getting any.  I am happy this school provides merit aid because it means DC will be surrounded by many strong students from middle class/upper middle class backgrounds, some of whom probably got into very top ranked schools.  The school provides both need based aid and merit aid.  Again, wealthy people don't really care about 10-30k discounts.  Perhaps some of the merit aid does go to what you might consider a "very wealthy" kid - so be it.  He or she earned it.  The savings can be spent on grad school.[/quote]

That's wishful thinking. Merit aid is not tied to income, so nothing saying it brings more MC families in.  Merit aid is something schools offer when they are trying to grow their applications, but by design it's a limited time offer (at least they'd like it to be).  A school like Reed has exited that phase, and can focus all their aid into need.  The next level is to offer even more need based aid, like packages with zero loans, and to more income levels.[/quote]

Nothing saying it will bring more middle class families in but... logic!  If someone is a mega-millionaire, do you think they care about saving $20k a year on their kid's education?  Do you think they would turn down Williams because they got $35k from Dickinson? of course not.  Merit aid appeals to families for whom $50-100K is a lot of money and for whom that kind of money is so important they are willing to accept a lower "prestige" degree.  Rich people apply ED and that is half the class.  They are price insensitive and just want their kid to go to the best school possible.  Not so rich people evaluate offers RD.  There are some exceptions where rich people are swayed by the merit award, but I think it's odd to argue that these sums of money matter more to people who have a lot of money as opposed to people who don't have a lot of money.

LOL that "Reed has exited that phase."  Reed is dog poop compared with the list of schools that offer merit aid provided above.  Reed's test score profile is inferior to all of them.

The merit aid schools will win long-term because there will be no reason for top students to pay a premium for what will be a non-premium product.
[/quote]

They've exited because they don't do it, and yet still stay afloat, that's an observation.  Logic is fine, but how about comparing enrolment demographics?  Sounds like, for whatever reason, you're interested in schools where family incomes over 110K but under maybe 500K are well represented (top 20% but not top 1%-ish)?  That's Reed.  By the numbers, the families you want to be around are willing to full pay at Reed, while much wealthier families end up at Dickinson. This is even more pronounced at a school like Kenyon, which is also known for merit.  Offering coupons to wealthy families is very much a thing, maybe they're amused, but they take them.[/quote]

You cannot possibly have access to any data that show there is a greater proportion of 100k to 500k kids at Reed versus Dickinson and Kenyon.  It is beyond irrational to speculate that middle class plus families are happy to go into debt for a Reed degree (not particularly known for having a lot of commercial value) while the families drawn to merit awards at Dickinson or Kenyon are fat cats who just love a good bargain when it comes their way (and will turn down higher ranked schools for that amusing coupon).  You are just making completely unsubstantiated statements that defy common sense.

I'm interested in schools that find the most talented interesting kids across the income spectrum.  Merit aid schools do a good job of that.  They do offer significant need based aid.  They offer ED to wealthier families who are willing to pay full price if they get in.  And they offer merit aid to appeal to kids of all economic backgrounds who will lift up the academic profile of the school.  [/quote]

Google broken? Check the access numbers here, for example. Doesn't check with your *logic*.  Maybe the families that pay for Reed are chumps, but they're the demographic you're looking for, yet they weren't baited with merit aid:
[url]https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/projects/college-mobility/reed-college[/url]
[url]https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/projects/college-mobility/dickinson-college[/url]
[url]https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/projects/college-mobility/kenyon-college[/url]
[/quote]

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