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[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]The factors that make it #1 on this ranking that includes both LACs and universities explain at least part of it.

https://lesshighschoolstress.com/blog/6/

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That is a very odd list. [/quote]

I thought it was an interesting set of criteria, and one that I think my kid would also value in a school (small class sizes yet also a wide variety of available courses; diversity among both professors and the student body; well-educated professors; general student satisfaction). It's at least as valid as the factors that US News values heavily.[/quote]

But the results are ridiculous, which suggests the methodology is flawed. Garbage in, garbage out. Way too much emphasis (as always nowadays) on diversity, especially when all these schools are committed to diversity. Anyone who chooses a school based on diversity stats is a true imbecile [/quote]

There's actually a wide diversity of success in achieving diversity on college campuses. And how can a methodology be flawed based on someone's opinion of the results? It is what it is, just like USNWR.[/quote]

I think even the diversity stats could be misleading- I noticed west coast schools fared relatively well- this could just be a result of a higher level of Hispanics and Asians in California. Is Scripps better than Williams because of that? [/quote]

It's better than Williams in terms of diversity, but diversity isn't everything. The ranking shared above is based only 20% on diversity, though, so Pomona beats out Williams (and everyone else)  based on the totality of the specific set of factors included. If you prefer USNWR's factors, use that. If you like Niche (not sure why you would), use that. If you like Barron's or Forbes or whatever, use them. Or, as ranker above says, make your own list.[/quote]

I get the idea that we can all draw our own conclusions but we look to these lists because we think they have some kind of credibility or value.  Even if I cared a great deal about diversity, I would be hesitant to rely on the particular metrics used.  Maybe for example these west coast schools have much lower Black student and professor populations.  They are just score well because there are a lot more Hispanics and Asians out west.  A methodology is only as good as what it produces, and a cursory glance at this list makes it seem very fishy.  Like is Richmond a high diversity school?[/quote]

You've got it reversed. What is produced is only as good as the methodology. The methodology perhaps seems fishy because you've always assumed USNWR's method defines some absolute truth. It doesn't, and this ranking shows how different the outcome can be if you care about different factors than USNWR does. It also actually encourages you NOT to use it for yourself but to create your own list, which is something I've never seen any other ranking do. They even give suggestions on how to make your own ranking. Why would you not want to do this for something you're going to spend over $100k on?

BTW, Richmond doesn't show up on the diversity lists they provide, so that's not the criteria that give it its high ranking. It's #1 on the class size list, though, and also does well in terms of student happiness.[/quote]

What this amounts to is really just telling kids to come up with their own list of criteria and run the screens on that. I don’t like it because a kid might have a sense of what he or she prioritizes but the metrics they choose may not perfectly capture that. This list for example has a west coast and all female skew. Given the priorities embodied in the criteria, I don’t think the list does it justice.

One thing about USNWR is that it does at least assign weight even if indirectly to things of practical importance that may not be trendy. Things like test scores, which reflect student quality and should be more heavily weighted, and endowment per capita, which reflects resources. And academic reputation. Real variables. So I think it is bad advice to tell a young person to devise their own goofy methodology (where data quality can be iffy and lead to misperceptions) and then take that list seriously. I would be pretty upset if some adult authority figure convinced my kid that Scripps was a better option than Williams. Because every grown up in the real world knows it’s not and if some kid chose Scripps over Williams based on this advice, that kid will be pretty resentful when she turned 25 and realized her college degree has less value in the real world than it could have. [/quote]

A few thoughts:

1) You're arguing that data shouldn't have yielded the results it did. But data is what it is, so you're arguing that your opinion reflects reality better than data does.

2) Suggesting you know the opinion of "every grown up in the real world" regarding Scripps vs. Williams seems pretty presumptuous, as does saying you know that Williams would have greater value for every student than Scripps.

3) You argue that USNWR uses real variables, but imply that those used by this ranking and any created by an individual for themselves are not. Why are you so convinced USNWR has "the truth", and no one else is capable of discovering other ways of looking at the world?

4) I really like the idea of each kid creating their own ranking. If my kids' education is going to cost hundreds of thousands of dollars, I want their choices to be based on what matters to them, not what some "authority figure" (as you say) says should matter to them. How is an authority figure (USNWR) saying Williams is better than Scripps any better than another authority figure saying the opposite?[/quote]

1) Because the specific metrics might not be perfect ways to capture the thing you are hoping to measure.  For example, one might look at "acceptance rate" as a measure of selectivity--but it is distorted by things like a large percentage of garbage international applications, yield control games and doesn't reflect quality of the applicants.  I noted how diversity metrics could skew favorably towards west coast schools because of larger Asian and Hispanic populations but that might not really capture what the student is thinking.  The devil is in the details with these metrics and as you noted some schools don't even report.  Arbitrary cutoffs like 10% or 20% can be problematic.  The fact that you are referecning some data set doesn't make the analysis higher quality--just provides a false sense of scientific precision.  Common sense can tell you which schools have better or worse diversity, paired with a sensible interpretation of various metrics.  I really think all these schools are aggressively committed to diversity for the most part, so it shouldn't be a variable.

2) I am indeed making an assumption that most grown up who live in the real world understand one school has a significantly stronger reputation and alumni network than the other.  Ok, so maybe Scripps has a better Aztec pottery program than Williams.  Who cares?

3) I am saying USNWR uses important variables that any sensible person would consider.  I cant' get into an epistemological debate over the nature of truth.  Folks can agree or disagree with my judgment call here.

4) I am all for kids using their own judgment.  My advice to a kid would be to look at the best schools they can get into in a conventional sense such as USNWR and then within fairly wide bands pick the one that is most appealing to you.  So if you are top 10 LAC kid, focus on the ones you like best.  If you are 10-30, focus on those.  30-50 focus on those.  But don't pick a 50th ranked school when you got into Amherst because you ran some goofy screen.  You don't have to be a slave to the conventional perceptions but don't ignore them.  You will regret having done so when you hit the real world 5-10 years later.  In general, the conventionally higher ranked schools have stronger students, more resources, better networks and better reputations.  All of which means they have more to offer everyone.  This doesn't mean automatically favor school 11 over school 12 just because it is ranked higher.[/quote]

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