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[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]Reluctant truth: women don’t want to “marry down,” including enlightened feminists. In fact, a woman will remain single or have children with donor sperm before they willingly marry down.[/quote]

The opportunity cost and risk to a woman of having kids is extremely high (could end up a poor single mother) so we have to vet carefully. [/quote]

Are you saying that women should not sleep with any men they wouldn't have children with?  We can't really have it both ways without consequences.

Maybe that's the elephant in the room. Hook up culture is bad for both men and women- at all ages, but especially young adults.  Not really sure how you get that cat back in the bag though. But well-educated elites can recover from the consequences far more easily than the working class.

OP, I'm the who recommended the Modern Wisdom podcasts. I also recommend subscribing to a Substack by a guy named Rob Henderson. Interesting background that I won't go into here but he popularized a term called "Luxury Beliefs," which are basically ideas, lifestyles and language that the elite develop to separate themselves from the masses. They're ideas that they espouse but don't actually follow or use $ to mitigate fall out from (like hook up culture, single motherhood) but that have trickled down to the working class and decimated their lives. The mainstreaming of toxic masculinity as meme in the nat'l zeitgeist has destroyed working class families in a way that most people who populate this board have no concept of.[/quote]

You are confusing marriage and sex. [/quote]

You're going to have to flesh this out a bit if you want to defend your point. Men, at a population.level, are driven by sex. They're not going to strive to be the best version of themselves that women desire if they have plenty of access to sex from women who are not yet thinking about marriage.

And I'm not blaming women for having sex before marriage. If in the past virginity was prized and a signal of desirability, today having plenty of experience and being great in bed from the get-go is desirable. I'm not advocating we go back to the days of stigmatizing premarital sex but years of meaningless sex has created a new set of material problems btwn the sexes that the OP is trying to articulate.[/quote]

And women won’t feel compelled to settle for a man-child if they can get D without having to play mom. 
[/quote]

But they do bc most of them want to be moms. As evidence, I would point to 80% of the threads on this sub-forum. [/quote]

Maybe the ones with low self esteem. You don’t need a husband to be a mom. 
[/quote]

But you need a husband to be a GOOD mom[/quote]

NP. No you don’t. A bad husband is worse than not having one at all.[/quote]

Exactly. No need to settle. 
[/quote]

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