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[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]An interesting take on the history of Crimea that no one wants to talk about:

https://responsiblestatecraft.org/2022/11/25/the-tragedy-of-crimea/

..Since 2014, a number of Western-sponsored polls have likewise shown a high level of support for reunification with Russia. Thus, a Pew survey  from April 2014 showed that 91 percent of Crimean respondents believed the 2014 referendum was free and fair. A June 2014 poll, this one by Gallup, found nearly 83 percent of the Crimean population (94 percent of ethnic Russians and 68 percent of ethnic Ukrainians) thought the 2014 referendum reflected the views of the people. A spring 2017 survey conducted by the German-based Center for East European and International Studies found that, if asked to vote again then, 79 percent said they would cast the same vote.

Most striking of all has been the turnaround in the attitude of Crimean Tatars. A 2020 report in Foreign Affairs found that the proportion of Tatars who indicated that they thought being part of Russia would make them better off rose from 50 percent in 2014 to 81 percent in 2019.

Many leading Ukrainian political and cultural figures, including the writers Vasyl Shklyar, Yuri Andrukhovych, and former President Viktor Yushchenko, have referred to Crimea as foreign to Ukraine and depicted its multiculturalism as a threat to the nationalist Ukraine they were trying to create. After 2013, some have suggested letting this territory go its own way. The danger of doing so now, however, according to President Poroshenko’s permanent representative in Crimea, Boris Babin, is that “if we don’t liberate Crimea and the East [militarily], then all of Ukraine will become the East and Crimea.”

..
To be clear, the loss of Crimea stems directly from Russia’s illegal annexation, but, as Ukraine’s first president, Leonid Kravchuk, acknowledged in 2019, it was fed by years of “very aggressive attacks of one region [Galicia in Western Ukraine – NP], which often believes that its ideology is the most correct, the most essential for the Ukrainian people; [and it] encounters the opposition of all regions of Ukraine that have a different ideology, or maybe different views, to be more precise, on the situation in Ukraine.”

To regain their loyalty, Kiev will have to acknowledge the role that its own policies, most notably forcible Ukrainianization, have played in fracturing Ukrainian society, or face the prospect that recapturing these territories will result in a new cycle of violence, at some point in the future.[/quote]

This “article” is some kind of bizarre a joke - a history of Crimea before 2019 to show why it will be hard for Ukraine to take it now?

There has been a sea change in the thinking of many (probably most) Ukrainians who were formerly pro-Russian (pre-2014). Every Ukrainian has watched how Russia has behaved as it took over Donbas and Crimea in 2014.  Russia was unable to provide stable governance, pensions, etc. and those regions have turned into authoritarian kleptocracies run by thugs. Add in how Russia has behaved in the last 10 months - torture, disappearances, filtration camps, separation of minors from their parents or legal guardians, forced deportation to Russia - and T[b]BH very few people except the most hard core Russians still support any kind of Russian governance in Donbas or Crimea. [/b] Russia will be lucky if Crimea gets some kind of independent, non-Ukrainian permanent status or a lengthy deferred status.

Another region Russia will never be able to keep Crimea is that from Crimea they can still easily threaten the major grain shipping channels. No one globally is going to support Russia keeping Crimea. 
[/quote]

Anything is a bizarre joke when it goes against your biases.  But on an off chance that you're serious, there are a few things to consider:

- Crimea's takeover was largely bloodless and did not inspire a popular rebellion because most people in Crimea were uneasy about the forced Ukrainization of the area that was never Ukrainian in history, ethnicity or spirit.  Western-sponsored polls after the takeover confirm as much.

- Ukraine is also an authoritarian kleptocracy run by thugs - a fact that was commonly acknowledged but became verboten in February 2022.

- Nobody globally HAS to support Russia keeping Crimea.  I mean no one globally supports Israel's continued annexation of the West Bank, and so? Doesn't change a thing.

- What is your evidence for the bolded?[/quote]

WOW, good job. are you on Putin's payroll?? 
you don't talk about the fact that most pro-Ukrainian population chose to move away from Crimea to mainland Ukraine.
you also don't mention that a lot of pro-Putin propaganda-fed Russians moved to Crimea and bought up real estate that was basically taken away from Ukrainians and local Tatars.   of course your polls will show russia-support increasing.
also, Crimean Tatars are not pro-Russian, that's a big lie. all local Tatar pro-Ukraine activists have been put in jail on made-up charges or vanished without a trace.

but those and many other points wouldn't serve you right. of course you won't talk about those.
you think you can feed your Putin's propaganda here and silly Americans will believe you. Unfortunately for you people who frequent this board are too smart and intelligent to eat that crap.

Would love to ask Jeff to check your IP, though that's useless with high popularity of VPNs in Russia right now.[/quote]

A Ukrainian-origin academic is a better source on these matters than a random DCUM poster armed with nothing but outrage conveniently produced, packaged in bite-size pieces and held in a spoon near your eager mouth.[/quote]

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