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[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]That large gap mostly exists for black boys.  Black girls almost don't have a gap.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2018/03/19/upshot/race-class-white-and-black-men.html.

I'm not saying racism isn't a problem, but there's nuance in there that needs to be teased out.  Why do black women seem to fare almost as well as white women when controlled for income, and why do black immigrant boys seem much more upwardly mobile?

A black, middle class girl and a black immigrant boy will in most cases do better than a poor, white boy.[/quote]

1)I think the key in looking at “controlled for income” is also openly acknowledging what that actually means. This could include looking at the income and education of family of origin, as well as current income.  This could also look at population norms, since the percentages of Black women of a certain age with UMC incomes might be much smaller than the percentage of similarly situated white women.  I’d also want to know a lot of details about what “fare almost as well” actually means.

2) Many immigrants come to the US for a better life —and they find it. Many immigrants are also able to come here as immigrants because they already have significant resources.  So compare that[b] optimism[/b], resources and possible community support for upward mobility with the experiences and histories of Black Americans. There are many differences.

Again, it would be helpful to know what “do better” means. Is it just things like income and educational accomplishments— or does it include measures of personal well-being as well? [/quote]

Interesting that you put "optimism" in as a resource. I think I agree, but I don't think I'd really thought of it as something that immigrants might have that native born people - despite potentially being similar in other resources - might lack. [/quote]

I think optimism IS a resource — particularly if it’s collective optimism, and the optimism is generally met with positive results.

Compare that with, say, American born Blacks who lived through things like moving to DC for a better life, establishing themselves, only to have the President ramp up racial segregation and Jim Crow laws; or the WWII generation that dealt with both the draft, and segregation at home and in the military; or people who established homes and communities, only to have all that they built obliterated through “urban renewal”.  There’s obviously a lot that I could say, including discussing current and ongoing issues like gentrification of formerly tight knit neighborhoods, and the pervasive, threatening, traumas of police brutality.

I’m not trying to diminish the hardships of immigrant experiences in any way — just saying that there’s a huge difference between reaching for a better life and more opportunities and finding them vs having the ongoing traumatic history that includes not just events like Tulsa, but the progressive weakening of hard-won civil rights and economic and social stability.

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