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[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]
Not the PP you're slamming.  I like posts that present the unvarnished truth about schools that have become heavily UMC quickly, however inconvenient and non PC the sentiments expressed might be.

[b]There's no denying that poor kids are doing a lot better collectively in KIPP type charters than in traditional public schools.[/b] This issue isn't race, it's class in a city with vast income disparities.

Unless DCPS is willing to get more adults in the buildings and to pay for extended day and year options for poor kids in traditional public schools with support from the teachers union (not happening) these problems, and solutions, are real. You can pretend they aren't real to suit your politics, PP, without anybody benefiting.[/quote]

You seem confused and to be presenting a false dichotomy.

Kids don't do better in heavily segregated schools where everyone is poor.  Research is clear on that.  What the PP that I was responding to was arguing against however, was not that.

PP was concern trolling that poor kids will be overwhelmed and socially outcast going to good schools with wealthy students ("...at-risk kids pretty clearly belong in schools set up to serve needy kids, vs. schools serving hundreds of UMC students".  This is an explicit call for segregation, and presents as undisputed fact a fringe assertion that's 100% disproved by all evidence over the past 60 years.

This exact argument was made in the 50s as a reason not to de-segregate schools, and it was widely recognized as what it is: paternalistic and racist (in that it assumes poor kids can't handle going to wealthy, high achieving schools).  Since that time, mountains of evidence have shown that going to integrated, well functioning schools is the single best thing for poor kids from segregated schools.  Integrating local schools and also busing -- which racists succeeded in branding as a failure -- worked, absolutely and indisputably in terms of improving outcomes for black kids and communities.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2015/10/23/forced-busing-didnt-fail-desegregation-is-the-best-way-to-improve-our-schools
https://chalkbeat.org/posts/us/2019/07/01/busing-for-school-integration-succeed-work-research/
https://www.huffpost.com/entry/kamala-harris-joe-biden-busing-louisville_n_5d2ceff0e4b0bca60364197f

[/quote]
Get a life.  In this City, KIPP scores for at-risk kids are higher than scores in traditional public schools.  [/quote]

Comparing aggregate test scores for a cohort of kids who are attending their default public school to aggregate test scores for a cohort of kids whose parents have gone through the lottery and then undertake the effort to get them to a charter school every day is not an apples to apples comparison given that parental achievement/involvement is the #1 predictor of academic success.  [b]Ever heard of selection bias?[/b]  Based on the level of familiarity with data demonstrated so far in this thread, I'm guessing not.[/quote]

+1.  Families who elect to apply to a charter are not the same as those in the general populace. [b] This means the extent to which KIPP is doing something specific to raise test scores--vs. the contribution of particularly motivated & stable families--is unclear.[/b][/quote]

So, I don't think that's true, because KIPP has a proven track record of doing -- in many different sites, with many different teachers, subject only to random lottery luck  -- what almost no other charter schools in DC do: consistently get good tests scores from poor children. Of course there is selection bias in charter v IB/default and there may even be selection bias in KIPP v other charter v better IB, but I doubt the selection bias that exists in that latter case is 100% responsible for the rings KIPP runs around other charters/most IBs. That said, I completely agree w/ the first sentence of your post and that, long-term, integration is the single most successful way to close the achievement gap... I just don't think that in a school system that still has a massive achievement gap, the KIPP success story for the left behinds is purely illusory. [/quote]

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