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[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]Those of us who still know our scores from many years ago know them because we have older children and we have had to have conversations with grandma about why our children are not attending the schools that we attended. Our parents in particular me remember schools like Middlebury as being almost like safeties or easy to get into. times have certainly changed.[/quote]

I find this thread very interesting in that it's clear that stats that would have meant admission "back in the day" would not fly today.  Why is that?  Are there just more kids and more competition?  Or is it among the UMC, students are being pushed to do more and it's an arms race?  Like I was a high achiever in HS in the mid-90s, but I didn't start thinking much about college until sophomore year, unlike kids now who seem to be gunning for Ivy from elementary on.

FWIW, DH teaches at a university and he tells me that he doesn't find the kids any smarter or more impressive than we were (despite their higher stats), so is it all a race to nowhere?[/quote]
I think a big thing is that kids are now applying to sooo many schools. I applied to 5 in 1987 and people thought that was a lot. Now, 5 would almost be on the low side assuming no EA/ED. [/quote]

I think there are a bunch of things going on, but primarily the following:

1. There is *much* more competition from international students than ever before. In the 80s, 90s, and even early 2000s, places like China and India were not nearly as wealthy (relatively speaking) as they are now. Yes, they sent students to the US for college, but not nearly in the numbers they are doing now. So kids today have to compete against high-achieving kids from two countries that together have some 2.6 billion people.

2. There has been an arms race among universities to drive down their acceptance rates. This has been happening for a long time, but it acts as a factor compounding #1. Lower acceptance rate = a perception that the school is more prestigious. Generally this isn't true, but it's what people believe and drives that all-important USNWR ranking. So schools encourage applications from kids who won't ever be accepted. They do things like UChicago did a few years ago and start accepting the Common App (a move which single-handedly moved UChicago up in the USNWR rankings by dropping the acceptance rate from somewhere around 25% to 7%).

3. As kids see low acceptance rates, they figure they need to apply to more schools because getting an acceptance from a given selective school is less certain. More applications drive down acceptance rates further, which in turn lead to even more applications the next year. It's a vicious cycle.

4. There are many fewer trade school options for kids who don't want to go to college, or can't handle the academics. As we all know, it used to be that kids could choose a non-college track in high school. A lot of that was dismantled because of the notion that everyone should go to college. I personally think it's pointless to ask a kid to spend tons of money on a 4-year degree when he/she might be happier and more successful learning a trade. There are so many implications to this trend, but one, of course, is an increase in applications to 4-year colleges.

To me, the above drives most of what we're seeing today. If the Common App instituted a limit on the number of applications a kid could put in, we threw out stupid USNWR, and we reopened trade schools across the country, a lot of this would be corrected in due time. Unfortunately, none of that seems to be happening. [/quote]

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