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[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]This particular story is so deeply disturbing, I can't believe there are still fraternities on Penn State campus...honestly.

Imagine being his brother and knowing you were just minutes away if anyone would've bothered to call you. And I can't even bring myself to imagine being his parents.

I hope everyone one of the frat members who ignored his obvious injuries and medical issues and those who tried to cover up what happened are thrown in jail for a long, long time. These are exactly the types of sociopaths who go on to become a$$h0l3 bosses and politicians destroying society.[/quote]

This story is especially horrific.  But imagine if your kid was sitting in his dorm room studying all night.  His good friend and roommate (19 years old) came home from a party, passed out on the bed and began choking on his own vomit.

Your kid runs over and tries to help his buddy as best as he can. Then he starts to debate....should he call 911 knowing that his roommate will very likely get into big trouble over this (maybe expelled or even arrested for underage drinking) or should he wait and watch hoping that his friend will sleep it off and be o.k. in the morning?

What would you advise your kid to do in that situation?

[/quote]

No brainer for me. Alive > expulsion. My kid should call 911. [/quote]

O.k.  Now your kid is the one who is passed out.  His friend turns him on his side so that he won't choke on his vomit.  Do you want the friend to call 911 or should the friend wait, watch and see if he'll sleep it off?[/quote]

I don't know why you think this is a hard question, from either perspective. If my kid is blackout drunk and vomiting such that calling 911 is on the table, I want someone to call 911. If my kid's roommate is blackout drunk and vomiting such that calling 911 is on the table, my kid knows to call 911. Better safe than ACTUALLY DEAD. Jeez.[/quote]

It's not that I find the question so hard to answer exactly.  It's just that it is more complicated than it may appear.  Kids have to make a judgement call - knowing that there is a fairly slim chance that their friend will not sleep it off (more than likely the kid will be o.k.)  it may be hard to choose calling 911 if they think that there is a 100% chance that their friend could get into big trouble (arrested/kicked out of school).

As a parent, I can totally see wanting the kid to err on the side of caution in both situations.  But as a former college student who saw plenty of kids get black out drunk/sick/passed out and live to tell about it....I know that the thought processes of a college friend are not necessarily going to be the same as a parent's thought processes.[/quote]

Yeah I definitely see what you're saying - there's a judgment call involved, and it's one that in my ways an 18 year old is not equipped to make. If I had called 911 everytime I had seen someone black out, stumbling drunk or slurring words and passing out, I would have been calling 911 multiple times a week, honestly. Like it or not, college kids get way too drunk so regularly that it's not even a notable event. HOWEVER: if someone has suffered a clear PHYSICAL injury (in this case, it was MULTIPLE) in addition to being way too drunk...OR (and in this case it was AND) is completely unresponsive and cannot physically be roused...you call 911. OBVIOUSLY. An 18 year old can absolutely be expected to know that. This one just wasn't even a close call.

The big issue with fraternity incidents, in addition to hazing (which just does not come into play at off campus / apartment parties) is the whole liability thing. There is such 'incentive' for them not to call because there will absolutely be repercussions - serious and widespread ones that come down on the whole organization. There is the group mentality / pressure that is just not there in such an organized fashion at off campus parties.

All of this said, I am a girl I had a totally fine experience with regards to frat prties when I was in college. Obviously everyone's experience was not like mine (and I'm sure you could even find other girls at my school that felt differently), but I went to these parties in groups with other girls and danced and socialized and became friends with and dated some of the frat members, and it was all fine and good. Most of the guys in feats that I came in contact with, I would truthfully characterize as good guys. Of course I wasn't there behind the scenes, and I heard about the regular frat group emails which sounded...shallow and disrespectful, at best. But, point being: my friends and I were not any "safer" and were just as likely to get dangerously drunk at offcampus block parties or apartment gatherings or even bars. However, we were girls...the dangers are just different. I don't mean to stereotype but I don't think you could find many girls who would - upon realizing that their friend had had 18+ drinks, fallen down a huge flight of stairs, passed out, vomited, fallen multiple times again, and become entirely unresponsive - not call 911. A fall and a passout = call 911...ALL other details just icing on the cake. I like to think most boys would know this deep down as well...but it's the mass groupthink that's dangerous [/quote]

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