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[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]
+1. Never mind that every single one of us in this thread said we would use whatever connections and resources we reasonably could to help our own kids. If the GT Asian child doesn't get in, it's because a black student took the spot, not because a spot was taken by a white student whose parents know the college president and several trustees. Is this the argument, PP?
[/quote]

This is PP. Yes, that is my point.  [b]Not to simplify it but affirmative action means looking not only at test scores but also at a variety of factors (including income)[/b].  I do agree with this.  While it certainly may help many African-Americans and other URM who may have otherwise been overlooked, it also helps white students against Asian students (gasp!) Nobody wants to examine that part of it--just read a thread on how high test scores shouldn't be the be all and end all (in regards to Asians).

Also, many URM are belittled for being under-qualified while people are admitting that they are ok with "under qualified."  As long as it is the privileged kind of under qualified.  When I heard that Julian Castro had a fairly average SAT score, I admit I was a bit shocked.  He went much further in his career than many people with higher scores.  How do you account for this?  You look at how hard he had to work to get to that SAT score.  It became an indicator for how much further he could go.  I know this isn't always the case but this is the reason to look at multiple factors.  I do find that this excuse to look at a variety of factors is biased against Asians by being dismissive of their accomplishments BUT let's be clear about what we're talking about.  The previous PP immediately decided to make it Asians vs. black in a twisted way.  I think this is a common perception though. [/quote]

You are not just simplifying it, but you are mis-characterizing it. Affirmative action is about race. If it was purely about individual circumstances, I would not have any problems with it: a kid's achievement is in the context of his environment, and if the college represents a common environment for the students, then it's logical to make adjustments for applicants based on their differentiated circumstances. As I noted earlier, there are poor black neighborhoods, poor hispanic neighborhoods, and poor asian neighborhoods, they all have challenges. [b]Yet we are somehow to believe that there are some special insurmountable challenges faced by poor black families that can only be remedied by differentiated action based on skin color. [/b]

IMO, college applications should be anonymous - when you submit an application you get a number and that's what the reviewers see. They don't see your name, they don't see your age, sex, race, religion, or anything that is a protected class. Let the achievements and the context of those achievements speak for themselves. A poor kid is just a poor kid, poverty doesn't care about skin color, only people who care about skin color, care about skin color. [/quote]

Appreciate the discussion, sincerely, even though I disagree with you. Have you read Between the World and Me?[/quote]

I have not. I did take African American Literature, and African American Women's Literature as electives in college - this was back in the late 90s so I don't claim to be an expert on AA history or race relations in the US, but I do hope that it at least demonstrates more than an average interest in the experience of minorities in the US. Race relations is one of the main issues holding back or slowing the progress of Americans, and it has such significant impacts on the quality of life, economic output, and political efficacy of our nation. Based on summary of the book, my initial reaction is that Between the World and Me is yet another emotional plea that bases its reasoning on cherry picked context. For example, it will bring up the very real issue of systemic black incarceration, but neglecting the fact that it was black leaders who pushed for tougher sentencing guidelines to combat urban crime. Look at the local leaders of any major city and see what their skin color is - those are the people who are perpetuating these problems, sending black people to prison. It will bring up police brutality, but hypocritically miss the irony of blaming the violence in black communities on external factors, while blaming the violence of police on internal ones. I'm not giving my money to misguided attempts at claiming victim hood. I'll go borrow it from a library and see how much of it I can sit through. Just in case you think my distaste for faux-intellectual books is one sided, I got through maybe a quarter of Guns, Germs, and Steel before I deleted it from my Kindle - I found it repetitive, simple minded, and entirely dismissive of important artificial factors such as mass slavery and imperialism. [/quote]

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