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[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][b]The apostles who were the first to spread Christianity[/b] -- Peter, Nathaniel, James, etc. (except John) -- were all martyred. These were the men who know Jesus, who served with Him for three years. They died rather than deny that Jesus was the resurrected Christ, God in the flesh. They would have known whether they were spreading a fable or not. Who would knowingly die for a lie?

The early Christian church was greatly persecuted. A great many of the early Christians were Jews who were despised by the rest of the Jewish people. They were hunted and persecuted by Jewish leaders and Romans alike. Yet they believed, followed and spread their faith regardless.

Why did Christianity spread and flourish in the early decades? Because Jesus Christ is the Messiah, God come to earth to die for our sins and rise again. [/quote]

I went to RCIA and was baptized at 36.  One of my greatest interests is the historical Jesus and also examining the differences between Christian churches.  I agree with the first paragraph.  The martyrs had nothing to gain from spreading the word of Jesus, yet they did.  Why would they have done this unless they truly understood who he was and what he stood for?[/quote]

I appreciate the sentiment in these posts and I would like for you to step back and see that people of other religions have also died for their faith.  Hunted down and persecuted for their faith.  The faith they know, believe and would rather die than convert.

Please extend your worldview to see that just because people died for believing in Christianity, people have also died for being Jewish, for being Hindu, for being Buddhist, Muslim, Sikh, Wiccan, and any form of "pagan".

Because some apostles may have rather died than not believe in Christianity does not make it the "one true" religion.  And the rising from the dead story is highly debatable and even many Christians believe this be metaphorical.

I wish people that believe in exclusionary religions could actually see that all the people of the world and their varying faiths have more in common than they do different.  If you seek out these commonalities and be more inclusive you would feel God (in whichever name you choose) in your heart even stronger because that is the of core of religion- love and grace- not trying to one up the next religion and harvest the most souls to claim as your own.

[/quote]
Yes, of course, people of all faiths have been persecuted and died for their faiths. It must take an unfathomable amount of courage to die for your faith. But everyone has done so died for their faith, not their actual first-hand, experiential, empirical knowledge.

The difference with Christ's disciples is that they preached that He was God and that He rose from the dead. If that were a story that they had made up, then they would have KNOWN that it was FALSE. They walked with Christ for three years. They claimed experiential, first-hand observational knowledge of His miracles, including His resurrection from the dead and ascension to Heaven. If these things weren't true, they would have known they were spreading falsehoods. It is much harder to believe they would have allowed themselves to be killed for something they knew not to be true, rather than something that people later of other faiths only believed from conviction.[/quote]

People that walked with Islam's Mohammed died for him.  They went to war for him and gave their daughters away for him. Why would they do this if he were not speaking God's truth?

People that walked with Sikhism's Guru Nanak also died for him.  They refused to convert to Islam and died for the faith that Guru Nanak had imparted.

Christianity doesn't have the monopoly on this.  I know it's what you're taught to believe but at some point you need to be able to be use critical thinking to discern that it's really a common theme across religions.
[/quote]
You again miss the point. Mohammad's followers do not claim that he rose from the dead. Neither do Guru Nanak's followers. They are espousing his teachings, which they believe to their core, but they are not dying for something they KNOW empirically to be false, as Christ's disciples would had to have done if they had made up the story to gain a following.

I don't know how to restate this, but I'll try one more time.

"I believe what Mohammad said about God." Fine, that's stating your faith.
"I believe Guru Nanak died for me and trust his teachings." Fine, that's also stating your faith.
"I saw Christ after he rose from the dead. He was dead, now He is alive." That's stating a fact. [b]If you know it's not a fact, that's pretty stupid to die for it[/b]. [/quote]

Not really, because the deal is, if you die with a firm belief that Jesus is your savior, you'll have eternal life.  This is a great deal -- if you can bring yourself to believe it.

The converse, is that if you don't believe it, you suffer eternally in hell.  Quite the easy choice.[/quote]
You missed my intention with that statement. I was saying the apostles would have known whether they were lying about Christ rising from the dead and that if they were lying, then it wouldn't have made sense to die for a known lie. So I was saying the same thing you were, which is the apostles knew Christ was God in human flesh and rose from the dead. [/quote]

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