Reply to Be Wary of Racism and Islamophobes

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[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]Okay, your next point...You said:

" That verse describes the proper treatment of women who were from pagan tribes yet wanted to be Muslims, and wanted to join Muslims at the place where they lived. Hence the very long list of requirements to prove that they were in fact Muslim. Why did women have to be perfect to make an oath? Did anyone apply these standards to men who wanted to make an oath of allegiance? "

Remember that an oath of allegiance may be given before the individual acquires power, as the individual has newly acquired power, or after the individual has held power for some time. In any of these situations, an oath of allegiance to become a new member of their tribe meant a vote for the individual to either acquire power or to retain power. The larger the volume of allegiances, the greater the individual's power. The important point is this verse gave women political relevance because it meant they could vote for a candidate or seek membership in Muhammad's state WITHOUT a male guardian speaking for them. It meant their independent oath carried the same political relevance as a man's. If this kind of right or political relevance was already granted to women in most other cultures, states, or religious systems at the time, then please provide the scriptural proof as we have done here with the Quran.

And if this verse is still not clear enough evidence for you that Islam made women politically relevant, then verse 38 of Ash Shurra should since it uses plural language and states believers should decide all relevant matters collectively through mutual consultation.[/quote]
I don't think you've shown this verse gives women voting rights or political relevance. It showed the rights of Muslims to join other Muslims. If these Muslims happened to be female, they had to clear a long list of requirements.[/quote]

The oath of allegiance wasn't simply muslims joining muslims;  it was a political contractual agreement. It essentially said if you joined Prophet Muhammad's tribe, you agreed to live by the laws of the land, protect the Prophet, and in exchange, the tribe protected you. [/quote]

I don't think so. Let us review:

YUSUFALI: O ye who believe! When there come to you believing women refugees, examine (and test) them: Allah knows best as to their Faith: if ye ascertain that they are Believers, then send them not back to the Unbelievers. They are not lawful (wives) for the Unbelievers, nor are the (Unbelievers) lawful (husbands) for them. But pay the Unbelievers what they have spent (on their dower), and there will be no blame on you if ye marry them on payment of their dower to them. But hold not to the guardianship of unbelieving women: ask for what ye have spent on their dowers, and let the (Unbelievers) ask for what they have spent (on the dowers of women who come over to you). Such is the command of Allah: He judges (with justice) between you. And Allah is Full of Knowledge and Wisdom.

What does this say? Quite clearly, it says: if a woman comes to you claiming to be Muslim, and you ascertain that she's not lying, do not return her to her husband. If he happens to be a non-Muslim, their marriage is invalid. Reimburse her now ex-husband for what he paid her as her dowry (proof in black and white that the much-touted marriage gift to wives was widely practiced by non-Muslims as well), and she's OK for you to marry if you pay her the dowry, too. [/quote]

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