Reply to NFL Kicker Harrison Butker’s unhinged commencement speech

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[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]Catholic dude saying catholic thing, at catholic school?

oh my[/quote]
except the Catholic nuns disagree with him.  I guess they aren't real Catholics.[/quote]

Eh. They are all real Catholics. There are some basic principles and doctrine Catholics are supposed to agree with (or at least not publicly dissent from), but open debate on the rest is fine.[/quote]
So the quip about a "Catholic dude saying catholic thing, at catholic school" can be debated since not all real Catholics agree with him.[/quote]

Sure. Debating what he said is fair game. But it goes too far to say someone is not a real Catholic because he does not have the same views as you on matters that are not core required beliefs.

I would have changed what was said above to "Catholic dude saying [b]his[/b] Catholic thing, at Catholic school"[/quote]

You missed the part where he speaks against basic Catholic teachings. So yeah, the dude is a Catholic, but he’s similar to a Catholic that had an abortion For convenience , or got divorced, and hold them up as good Catholic teachings.

[/quote]

Which basic principles or doctrines did he speak against? Did he say anything contrary to the Nicene Creed? Did he publicly doubt the concept of original sin or sin itself?  Did he question the sacraments or the authority of the Pope? Did he speak out against transubstantiation?

NFP and what roles women should play or not in the world simply are not basic doctrine. Having very non-mainstream views on those things are not a sin, but an abortion of convenience is. And he did not present his kooky takes as Catholic teaching, but his views.[/quote]

Yes, he did say something against Catholic preaching. Jesus Christ for f**k sake. If you don’t see it, you’re not a Catholic.

There is no way you are Catholic and you didn’t see that.

I wish non-Catholics would stop commenting on this thread because they are so incredibly ignorant. It’s almost impossible to speak to them about the subject.[/quote]

I am the Catholic you are calling a non-Catholic. If you are Catholic, I question your Catholic education as you don't seem to understand the wide latitude the Church gives for personal views on matters that are not core doctrine. I did think the guy almost verged into Calvinism at one point, which I thought was questionable.[/quote]

DP. I don’t know the canon definition of heresy but he certainly said a lot of stuff that seems like it could warrant some kind of censure. Attacking priests. Attacking Humanae Vitae. Suggesting women’s vocation is to their husband and not god. Going against multiple Church pronouncements that the Jews are not guilty of the crucifixion. [/quote]

Good that you prefaced this by saying you do not know the definition of heresy. Here's a good plain English article: https://www.catholicnh.org/assets/Documents/Worship/Our-Faith/Understanding/Heresy.pdf

Some examples cited of what is not heresy--the annulment point is a particularly apt comparison for what the guy said about NFP: "To insist, as some do, that the Eucharist must always be received by everyone under the forms of both bread and wine, that baptism must be done by full immersion, or that the Church should not grant annulments is not heretical. For sure, such propositions contradict established Church positions, but they do not rise to the level of heresy because they do not touch the core of Catholic faith."[/quote]

He’s deliberately teaching against Vatical II. The Pope says that “that to be Catholic one must adhere to the reforms brought about by the landmark event.”

https://www.ncronline.org/news/francis-no-concession-those-who-deny-vatican-ii-teachings[/quote]

What did he say that was contrary to Vatican II? Francis himself has permitted traditional Latin masses, so I am guessing that is not it.[/quote]

Humanae vitae[/quote]

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