Reply to If you are someone who "warns" people of the dangers of COVID on social media

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[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]FTR - this is the result of trying to prevent transmission at all costs, indefinitely:
[twitter]https://twitter.com/DrEricDing/status/1604748747640119296?t=dw1_Dfe3VpAG-yBS7ElZig&s=19[/twitter]

Feigl-Ding seems to see this as proof that zero COVID policies need to stay which seems crazy to me. They can't be sustained long term. They have massive human costs. And now 1 million + people are going to die very soon, many simply because the healthcare system is completely overrun. What was the point of it all?[/quote]

[b]Is their population not highly vaccinated?[/b] Ding is a fear mongerer.  If he ever made accurate predictions, we’d all be dead of monkey pox by now. [/quote]

No they do not have much immunity from vaccines because the Chinese vaccines were not great and there is a lot of vaccine hesitancy in the elderly population.

Ding is not the one predicting 1 million+ deaths, btw, he's just stating a widely reported projection.[/quote]
The Chinese painted themselves into this corner. A population without much previous exposure to the virus, low vaccination rates (especially among the elderly) with a not-great vaccine, and insufficient hospital capacity. They screwed themselves with their policies, and now they have to live (or die) with their choices. [/quote]

You really are not getting it. We are also going to be living with this. How much of the stuff in your house comes from a China that can't produce those things in an outbreak like this?

[/quote]
Okay. What do you want me to do about it? The Chinese screwed us at the beginning of the pandemic with their lying, and [b]now they're the ones[/b] getting screwed. They have their government to blame for the mess they're in. [/quote]

No. Now we are ALL being screwed. You can point the finger elsewhere as much as you want, but we are going to have impacts from this. We're in it together. That's how pandemics are. [/quote]

At a certain point very early on it became impossible to contain the virus. Social distancing was a very costly way to reduce death while waiting for the vaccine. We could have reduced death more and possibly variants by getting more vaccines out to other countries. Beyond that there is no endgame. The virus surges and falls in ways that are largely out of our control without extreme, unsustainable measures.[/quote]

Vaccines are not 100% so you need a combination of distancing, masking, vaccines and people staying home when sick.  Denial isn't working. [/quote]

Denial? That's the pot calling the kettle black. You're obviously still in denial about the future of Covid. No level of masking or isolation will make Covid "go away." There's no scientific advance on the horizon that will significantly reduce risk below what we can already do through vaccination. When it comes to Covid, this is, roughly speaking, as good as it gets. It doesn't make sense to continue with measures that we wouldn't be willing to put up with forever. For the vast majority of people, that means no masks.  And it means staying home for fevers and other *clear* signs of a communicable infection, but carrying on with mild cold symptoms.  When you look at China right now, and to a lesser extent the US with RSV last month, you see the problem with the indefinite infection avoidance strategy: you can't avoid it forever. You just delay it. And the longer you delay it, the more people there are that are vulnerable to reinfection with increasing levels of severity.[/quote]

You're intellectualizing your anxiety to be back in "normal time" here, which is an understandable defense. It's a stark and unpleasant thing to know that we in fact are going to be living with COVID for the foreseeable future, and that it's going to be killing more people and disabling others and disrupting life quite a bit. The fact that it is stark and unpleasant and that the measures to mitigate all of these bad outcomes are a PITA have nothing to do with the fact that they are a good idea. They are. [/quote]

DP you have done your own cost-benefit analysis and determined that these measures are unambiguously worthwhile. Great! I have also done one and decided they are not worthwhile for long periods of time. Which one of us is right? Who can know?[/quote]

I am. And I know that I can know. So I am not suffering from your problem of believing that it's hard to know who can know.[/quote]

Knowing what you don't know is part of what makes really smart people as smart as they are.[/quote]

That's true. But knowing what you DO know--and not allowing the fear, wish or aspiration for things to be otherwise to mislead you--is also a smart thing. [/quote]

I mean if you just think of COVID mitigation measures as a PITA, then I'm sure you think this is an easy question. Unlike you, I do not pretend these measures don't have real, long-lasting negative impacts on people including children and the elderly. You think I'm the one with my head in the sand, guess what, I think your head is deeeeep in the sand.[/quote]

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