Reply to If Jesus wasn’t a real historical figure, where did Christian theology come from?

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[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]Without wading through 37 pages of stuff, is there anyone (Christian, Jew, atheist or otherwise) who doesn't believe Jesus was a historical figure?[/quote]

I don’t know if he - or if he didn’t.

No evidence.

Seems likely, but we don’t know definitively. 
[/quote]

I think you're confusing "evidence" with "evidence that's totally convincing." The letters of Paul are evidence, the Gospels are evidence, the non-controversial reference to Jesus in Josephus is evidence, as are the references in Pliny and Tacitus. It's likely that none of them are first hand evidence, but "someone told me a Jewish teacher named Jesus existed and was crucified" suggests that it is likely that such a man did exist. Even in a court of law, hearsay IS evidence, it's just not generally admissible evidence. There's evidence, even if it's not conclusive evidence.[/quote]

DP here, and you are correct that the evidence is not totally convincing.

- [b]Using the Bible as evidence that the bible is true is begging the question.[/b]

- Josephus is widely considered a forgery: https://www.richardcarrier.info/archives/7437

- Pliny and Tacitus were around a century after Jesus, not contemporaneous.

[/quote]

Why is it begging the question? It’s second-hand accounts probably based on sayings/quelle passed down for a few decades. Pretty much the same thing happened with our knowledge of Socrates, but you wouldn’t dismiss Socrates out of hand just because we only know him through Plato.

Also, you’d need to come up with a convincing alternative explanation for the gospels and Paul. Waving your hands and complaining about the patriarchy doesn’t work when you’re talking about early believers who, instead of controlling things, were killed for their faith.[/quote]

Because using a book to prove what is written in that same book is the definition of begging the question.[/quote]

There is a lot of information and study about the various origins of the many writings that make up the Bible. You can take a class in it. Here is one that addresses the history of the New Testament. https://www.thegreatcourses.com/courses/history-of-the-bible-the-making-of-the-new-testament-canon
[/quote]

Then present the evidence from these writings about the historicity of Jesus.  I believe those writings are all transcribed oral history from hundreds of years later.

Please also tell me if you apply the same standard to the Pagan gods, The Norse Gods, or the other Abrahamic messiahs, because there is more writing about them.  I will expect a response to this part if you reply.[/quote]

LOl at pp demanding others answer her questions. She even got timelines wrong—Paul and the gospels came 20-70 years after Jesus, not “hundreds of years later.”

Watch Bart or take the Great Courses class. Don’t demand others do your work for you. [/quote]

"[i]Don’t demand others do your work for you.[/i]".

That's what people say when they can't find the evidence themselves, and know you can't either, so they send you on a snipe hunt.  It's unfalsifiable.

BTW, I agree with Ehrman that Jesus the man more likely existed than didn't.  I have read his books, especially [i]Misquoting Jesus[/i].  I was responding to the quality of the evidence presented here, which was poor. Oh, and there was probably a Socrates but likely is no god, so who cares if a false prophet actually lived?[/quote]

Exactly.

PP knows that she can’t present the evidence and stormed away in defeat. Sad. 
[/quote]

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