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[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]Its sounding like Russia has fire control over the last road into Avdeeka. Ukraine is shifting the 47th and 82nd to that front as well.

Surely Ukraine realizes its waltzing into another Bakhmut? But then again, when you believe your own propaganda, you're bound to make big mistakes. [/quote]

This has been an incredibly costly offensive for Russians. They've lost thousands of soldiers and hundreds of pieces of equipment. The Ukrainians are fighting from well-established defensive positions. Russians are advancing over heavily-mined open fields. Artillery is dialed in. They are getting obliterated.

Will they ultimately take Avdiivka? Probably. But they're resorting to using human waves of poorly equipped and untrained soldiers. The Chechens have been brought in to shoot Russians that retreat and there are now reports of soldiers refusing orders. It's certain death for them on that front. But Putin wants this victory before winter sets in. And Ukraine has decided that if Russians are willing to get destroyed here, they'll oblige them.

In the end, like Bakhmut, Avdiiivka will be just another pile of rubble. The Russian military will be significantly depleted. And the rest of the world will be left to wonder why are Russians so willing to die? It's roughly a quarter million casualties and counting so far for what was supposed to be a three day operation to take Ukraine. It's been a strategic catastrophe for Russia for which NATO will be forever grateful. [/quote]

This is what happens when Ukrainians believe their own propaganda. You all still think Bakhmut was some big win where you ground down the Russians, instead of being a complete disaster that cost Ukraine 70,000+ soldiers. The propaganda is stale as well, with "meat waves" making a comeback. Are "meat cubes" and mobile crematoriums coming back too?

Avdeeka is shaping up exactly the same, in which you claim to be killing/destroying far more Russian assets than you actually are without counting the costs either. If Ukraine continues to pour men and material into a lost cause, they will suffer the same disproportionate loses here as well.

At this point, its hard not to argue that Zelensky is purposely getting as many Ukrainians killed as possible. [/quote]

This is Russian propaganda.
There is zero credible evidence that Ukraine lost 70k troops at Avdiivka.  Zero.  None.  And there IS ample evidence of Russia's failed wave after wave, entire columns of Russian armor destroyed. Russia's losses at Avdiivka have been even worse than their losses at Vuhledar.  And from what I've seen it's been worse than 4:1 losses compared to Ukraine's losses.  Every meter of gain has been coming at unsustainable cost to Russia.[/quote]

You might want to try reading sentence #2 again. I'll take alternative casualty counts for Ukraine in Bakhmut if you have them.

Ukraine has claimed to be inflicting massively disproportionate losses the entire conflict. And yet somehow Russia is advancing. How do you square that propaganda circle? How is Ukraine constantly losing when inflicting 4-1 or even 10-1 casualties? Does Russia have necromancers? [/quote]

In the last 6 months Russia has lost more territory than they gained.  Yes, they gained a few KM to take Bakhmut (after turning it to worthless rubble) and they gained a few KM in Avdiivka but they are losing ground daily in most other places along the front.  Along with losing an absolutely staggering amount of armor, aircraft, and having their once-mighty Black Sea Fleet banished from Crimea.  As for casualty count at Bakhmut I seriously doubt it was 70k.  Russia lost at least 40k from Wagner alone, and the visually confirmed loss of Wagner vehicles and other equipment is commensurate with that to provide corroborating evidence, but there is no such corroborating visual evidence to indicate 70k Ukrainians lost.[/quote]

Keep in mind that the best public western assessments of Russian losses can only confirm some 34,000 deaths since the start of the SMO: [url]https://en.zona.media/article/2022/05/20/casualties_eng[/url]

That's a source that has names, ranks, week of death and other data. Any other number is a "trust me bro" type number. No one dares do the same for Ukrainian casualties because they don't want to get car bombed.

As for Avdeevka:

[twitter]https://twitter.com/JulianRoepcke/status/1717458514367390171[/twitter]

That's 200-300 casualties per day per a pro-Ukrainian count in Avdeevka. Is Russia losing 800-1200 a day? If so, where are their obituaries?

How do you inflict 4X or greater casualties and lose ground? Repeatedly? An army would absolutely break if they took sustained 4X casualties.

The Ukraine is simply propped up by lies and grift now. Its a shell of a state on the edge of collapse. [/quote]

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