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[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]So Palestinian terrorism is justified because, because, because.  There is no peaceful way forward, terrorism is the only way to achieve anything?  That's the argument?  Anyone with a scintilla of civilized blood in their veins would reject that puerile, simplistic proposition.  Of course, if you accept it, all bets are off - the Palestinians should keep inflicting terror.  If you adhere to that idea, you've no basis for crying when the terrorists and their supporters are suppressed.  So stop whining and accept that the current condition of the Gazans is self-inflicted even as you think their actions have some kind of utility in advancing their causes and redressing their grievances.

Never mind that the Arab states surrounding Israel mostly engage in political discourse and negotiations instead of violent aggression.  Those countries have avoided any recent conflicts because they have stayed within their own borders, having learned from their past adventurism that attacking Israel achieves nothing but self-destruction, a diminution in their own borders, the loss of military capacity, and embarrassment on the world stage.  Iran is still figuring that one out, as are the Houthis.

The Palestinians can try to re-fight the Israeli war for independence over and over again, obtaining the same results they did in 1948.  You can cheer them on from the sidelines where it's safe, but encouraging them is to urge them to continue further aggravate their hopeless state of affairs.  [/quote]

Please suggest civilized ways currently available to the Palestinians to resist land grab and settlement expansion. I’ll wait. [/quote]

Renounce terror to start with and go from there.  Nothing will change as long as terror is the exclusive foreign policy pursued by the Palestinians.  It matters not what alternatives they are offered, they consistently choose terror in the utterly absurd hope that such a path will result in the disappearance of Israel and its population and the return to the status quo ante of 1947, assuming they found the British Mandate a suitable form of governance and wouldn't complain just as much about that.  The sheer imbecility of this course of action is astounding - no rational person could possibly conclude, after 75 years of failed efforts, that this is a viable path forward or that it forms the basis for a useful foreign policy and path to peaceful engagement with anyone.

The assertions here that terror is the only option available is equally idiotic - doing the same thing over and over and over, obtaining the same result over and over and over, and urging more of the same is irrational as well as ineffective.  It's time for a change, and that change is not gong to be Israel packing up and dissolving itself, it has to be the Palestinians recognizing that trying to address their grievances through a corrupt government and terrorism is not only unproductive but affirmatively self-destructive.  Trying a path without terrorism can only be an improvement, although that requires a rejection of sponsorship by Iran, which uses terror as an instrument of their own foreign policy.  They do that through proxies like Hamas, to try to insulate themselves from direct retaliation but have no objections when their surrogates get hammered instead.

If the Palestinians reject terror, prospects for peace would increase exponentially.  Continue to embrace terror, and the Palestinians will continue on a path towards obliteration, all while sympathizers decry the situation.  The Palestinians can end the violence this moment by rejecting Hamas and all it stands for, and ensuring the release of the hostages.  Or they can keep on keeping on.  it's up to them - Hamas attacked on Oct. 7, not the IDF.  [/quote]

PLO has renounced violence and recognized Israel. I note it accomplished 0% in terms of stopping land grab.

Again, please suggest civilized ways to stop settlement expansion.

Also, when do settlers get to renounce violence?[/quote]

Because Fatah is corrupt as hell. 89 year old Abbas is not bringing an independent state. He and the rest of Fatah only care about their money. Much like the Hamas leadership, who were all billionaires before they were killed.

I personally think the West Bank settlers are awful. Israel will never be the "good guy" as long as those 600,000 orthodox lowlifes and extremists are taking land in the West Bank. But... Palestinians offer nothing. There's no one to negotiate with. A bunch of Islamic extremists and fat cat oligarchs. Right now, the smart Palestinians become doctors and engineers and move away as quickly as possible. Meanwhile, civic culture among Palestinians is a cesspool.

Where is is the Palestinian Ghandi? Where is the Lech Walesa? Where is the MLK? Where is the Ataturk? Where is the Palestinian equivalent of David Ben-Gurion?

Until Palestinians do a little soul searching and revolt against Hamas and Fatah, it's not going to go well. There is no one to negotiate with. The Palestinian leadership is horrible, and until that changes, nothing is going to change.

And yes, blah blah blah. Those super smart Zionists controlling Palestinian politics. If Palestinians think the Israelis are controlling everything, well, it's not a mature society. It's all grievance all the time. And that gets you nowhere.

When Palestinians in Gaza start killing Hamas members, I will pay attention and be hopeful something new is afoot. Until then, Palestinians  really don't have much hope.   [/quote]

Ben Gurion? The terrorist???[/quote]

If Palestinians could manage to elevate a Ben Gurion as their leader, they'd be doing infinitely better than their Abbas and Sinwar choices.

It's up to them. [/quote]

The same David Ben-Gurion (David Grun before he changed his name to fake indigeneity) who personally led vicious massacres of indigenous people in the region to force the hands of Western powers? Western powers already bending over backwards to hasten recognition of the State of Israel that they had forced upon the native, indigenous people?

That explains a lot. That terrorist is a peaceful statesman in your twisted mind, when in reality he was nothing more than the worst of Hamas, Hezbollah, etc.[/quote]

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