Reply to NYTs: if affirmative action goes, say buy-bye to legacy, EA/ED, and most athletic preferences

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Reply to "NYTs: if affirmative action goes, say buy-bye to legacy, EA/ED, and most athletic preferences"

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[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]College admissions workers are miserable racists. They hate poor white people. [/quote]

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Do a lot of  "poor white people"  even apply to selective colleges?

It's not like a whole bunch of kids from Appalachia are pining to go to HYPS.

Probably not. Community colleges maybe.[/quote]

Do a lot of  "poor Black people"  even apply to selective colleges?

It's not like a whole bunch of kids from the inner city are pining to go to HYPS.

Probably not. Community colleges maybe

**see what I did there? Comments like yours exemplify the prejudice that many coastal liberals have against poor white people. 
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Whites have had advantages in America since birth. Generations had a leg up based on free labor from slavery. No excuses. Many of the poor in small towns remain ignorant, insular, grievance-filled and racist - especially in much of the southern states ( not talking immigrants from Europe here).

Not prejudice. Just the truth. [/quote]

There are now a lot of liberals who agree with everything you just said but still see AA as a counterproductive policy. The existence of anti-Black racism and its profound impact on the achievement gap is not really in question. What is in question is whether AA can possibly be implemented in a fair way and whether it really achieves its aims. No, and no. [/quote]

So what is the answer?  Ignore it?[/quote]

Of course not. The answer is for Black people to prioritize education, study hard and compete. Even if the playing field isn’t fair, which is true for many groups. This is society’s problem, but it is not society’s problem to solve. It’s a Black problem with a Black solution. [/quote]

I like this logic. The next time I run someone over with my car I’ll tell them the solution was for them to have prioritized getting out of my way. Even though it is unfair to hit them with a two ton vehicle that’s not my problem to solve. It’s their problem. [/quote]

You would hopefully agree that the most important question is not who is at fault, but what is the most effective way to avoid an accident. That is the analogy here. Our society is at fault. That doesn't mean that we can fix the problem.[/quote]

When the accident had already happened, our entire justice system is geared towards determining who is at fault.  If society is at fault, then it’s up to society to fix it. Or do you only believe in responsibility and accountability for the victims?[/quote]

Justice and effectiveness are two different matters. On justice / fault, we agree. On effectiveness, there is really only so much that external help can do. To continue your analogy, you got hit by a car. You're in a hospital doing therapy. It sucks that it's true, and it's not fair, but really the only way for that therapy to work is for you to put in the effort. It has to be you, nobody else can do it. Again, concede not fair. That's not the point.[/quote]

Well the guy who hit me with their car is paying for my hospital bills, my therapy, my lost wages and my pain and suffering. So if you prefer straight reparations to affirmative action I guess you’ve made the case. [/quote]

If your theory of AA is that it is compensatory, this works. Assuming the people actually compensated are disadvantaged, which in practice is dubious. If it's supposed to change things, it seems to be failing.[/quote]

How is it failing? Because you personally don’t think the recipients are deserving? [/quote]

DP: it is failing because it isn't working. Heard of massive debts? Of massive drop out rates? Of massive and open racial discrimination against minority groups?[/quote]

The point of AA is to increase minority representation. How is it not working?

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Well, it goes to the heart of what should be the point of AA.  Should it be to help a minority graduating from Anacostia HS...or should it function as it currently does where the vast majority of African Americans at elite schools are coming from elite backgrounds.  From a Harvard economist:

"Seventy-one percent of Harvard’s Black and Hispanic students come from wealthy backgrounds. A tiny fraction attended underperforming public high schools. First- and second-generation African immigrants, despite constituting only about 10 percent of the U.S. Black population, make up about 41 percent of all Black students in the Ivy League, and Black immigrants are wealthier and better educated than many native-born Black Americans."[/quote]

Full article:  https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2022/10/30/affirmative-action-supreme-court-college-admissions/

"I benefited greatly from affirmative action.  ... The problem is not affirmative action per se. The problem is lazy implementation of it as a set of blunt racial preferences.  ... A machine-learning model would be fed historical admissions data, including candidates’ family background and academic achievement, and noncognitive skills such as grit and resilience, along with outcomes of past admission decisions. It would use these data to predict new applicants’ performance ... The Supreme Court seems poised to strike down the explicit use of race in university admissions. My hope is that it will still leave room for data-driven approaches to affirmative action that ensure real meritocracy."

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